Do you think the treatment of natal women and passing trans men are the same, even though the trans men are being perceived as male?

submitted by Genderbender from self.GenderCritical

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[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I assume you compare natal women and FTM transitioners whom others take for natal men? If so, no, the two groups are not treated the same. I have seen a couple of interviews, read a few personal stories and seen some research data which suggest that trans men get more respect and are listened to when they say something. These are things they themselves noticed as changing. Then some studies (I have no idea how good) found that the average earnings rise for FTM transitioners while they decline for MTF transitioners. That could be the gender gap in wages type of discrimination. The gap, by the way, really is a sex gap.

The cases where the two would be treated the same would be specific situations. For instance, if an employer knows that a trans man can get pregnant, then that trans man will be treated with exactly the same reservations as fertile-age women in general are.

[–]Jalaces 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I didn't knownthat about wages. That does seem to prove that women (or people perceived as women) get paid less. Although I guess it could also be that TiMs are paid less in general, since a lot of places don't want a TiM representing them especially if he's obvious looking, so they have to settle for worse jobs.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Except TIMs can always go in and get the job as a male ( which I know many do esp. in tech) and not have to worry about the wage gap. Women don’t have that luxury even if we cut our hair and present masculine because we would still be seen as women. TIFs on testosterone would probably gain from their recent male privilege because even if their ids said female most people believe that they have lost their ability to bear children, so they become more desirable as an employee.

[–]Lyssa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, a TIM/ trans woman with at least breast implants can no longer just "get a job as a male". Historically, transexuals transitioning to a female appearance had in quite a number of cases resort to prostitution not as a kinky choice but because they've been booted out and accepted nowhere else. That now some IT managers cash in six figure saleries and come in as "Stacy" whenever they feel like it and kick out everybody who can't keep track which pronouns to use on which day of the week does not invalidate the very real job discrimination other trans people and next to all past transexuals faced.

But yes, a lot of TiF / trans men report increased wages / promotions / being taken more seriously after passing as male. Hell, even women with certain masculine features experience that. Remember the fake barritone of Elisabeth Holmes? She knew exactly why she was making that huge effort (probably harder than actually finishing your Stanford degree).