An offering of some of my favorite links used to argue facts with TRAs

submitted by CaliforniGinger from self.GenderCritical

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[–]crodish 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How would you suggest debating someone who insist "feminism is for ALL women, and that includes transwomen" without using "woman is an adult human female"? I'm so tired of seeing this because they already blatantly ignore the latter, so telling them "you have to be a biological woman to be a feminist / feminism is for biological females" flies over their head or else falls on deaf ears.

[–]CaliforniGinger[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's a tough one, they tend to be like Jameela and have cotton ears. I'd suggest you ask them to define woman, which they will only occasionally try to do. Otherwise they'll give some vague fluffy definition and you can ask them how come all the babies and children and women who have been mutilated, abused, and killed because of their sex weren't allowed to transition out of being female? Were they just not smart enough? Why are they blaming those vulnerable innocents for their own oppression, tortures, and murder? At that point I usually get blocked, but hopefully other people have seen the discussion and it plants seeds.

[–]crodish 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

"A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman."

"But what is a 'woman'?"

"A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman."

repeat to infinity and beyond

Their logic is so exhausting...

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why argue with the insane though. That's a losing proposition.

[–]littlerbear 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tell them that women don't have penises and when they say 'what about post op trans women?' tell them that a surgically altered penis is still a penis. If they persist, ask them if they want you to specify what else is used to line a functional hole in a man's crotch. If they keep going, remind the individual that an actual vagina is not lined with penis, scrotum, tilapia skin or colon. And, you can always circle back to 'if you're a woman in the first place, why'd you have your penis removed? Women never have to have their penises removed because we don't have penises.' As unpalatable as some of these discussions can be, they do indeed get the point across.

[–]ComfortableEqual 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It can be helpful to point out that trans experiences are different and trying to force trans into their desired category actually erases trans experience. It's a tricksy one but has worked in the past. It also helps keep trans men in focus, who u do genuinely think are ignored as they are biologically women.

Old school transsexuals where also taught that the changing of secondary sex characteristics did not make them their desired sex, so what has changed? Ask a few questions about the difference between sex and gender.

Also rather than repeatedly adding to the destabilising of what it means to be a woman, focus on what it means to be a man and exactly at what point do they stop being a man? Usually some bollocks about 'in the wrong body' is then said and it's quite fun to then ask if they believe in gendered souls...

Essentially keep asking questions that destabilise and seek 'clarity'. If there not too far gone the questioning usually gets them thinking.