Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

when was that meaning changed and who demanded it change?

What does inflammable mean other than ‘can burst into flame’?

Inflammable and flammable are synonyms and mean "able to burn" even though they look like opposites. In this case, rather than the prefix in- meaning "not," as it often does, "inflammable" comes from the latin verb inflammare, which means "to cause to catch fire." "Flammable" was coined later from a translation of the latin verb flammare ("to catch fire"), which inflammare is related to.

Literally hasn’t changed meaning..it’s become a colloquial term but the definition is not understood to mean “very” by anyone..

Why do you refuse to directly answer anything i ask you?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I literally just gave you a direct answer. You said which words have moved to opposite meanings. I gave you two.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

When did this change occur? Who made the change?

Do you see any issue teaching geometry if triangle means multiple things? What else has inflammable ever meant?

Do you think language that does not assign a specific meaning to a word is useful?

Also, how many people actually think that woman means actual women as well as anyone who calls themselves one? Why is there not allowed to be any distinction between the two groups when extremely obvious and physically/socially important differences exist between the two groups?

Where is literally defined as meaning something else? Do you think colloquialisms are the same thing as a real definition?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Users of the language make the change. There’s not some grand high arbiter of language. They evolve through use.

Inflammable has accepted meanings as both highly flammable and not flammable evolved through colloquial misuse becoming accepted use. Much like literally now both has accepted meanings as figuratively and actually through coloquial use.

Language is useful if it conveys meaning. It doesn’t need formalization to function. As long as there is a communication with intention and an understanding then language has been achieved.

Also, how many people actually think that woman means actual women as well as anyone who calls themselves one?

Haven’t seen a poll but a statistically significant number I would wager. Why else would we even be having the conversation. Enough include us that you feel the need to shout it down.

Why is there not allowed to be any distinction between the two groups when extremely obvious and physically/socially important differences exist between the two groups?

There is a distinction. That’s the entire reason the “trans/cis” dichotomy is in parlance among trans people. Because we recognize a distinction.

Where is literally defined as meaning something else? Do you think colloquialisms are the same thing as a real definition?

Yes. Because that’s how language works. The dictionary isn’t the end all be all of communication.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Users of the language make the change. There’s not some grand high arbiter of language. They evolve through use.

Then men doesn’t mean what you say it does and transwomen aren’t women.

Inflammable has accepted meanings as both highly flammable and not flammable evolved through colloquial misuse becoming accepted use. Much like literally now both has accepted meanings as figuratively and actually through coloquial use.

Misuse of the language by laymen does not actually mean inflammable means both flammable and not flammable in the lab. Incorrect use of a word, like using woman to refer to a man, is not evolution. It’s obfuscation.

Language is useful if it conveys meaning. It doesn’t need formalization to function. As long as there is a communication with intention and an understanding then language has been achieved.

How can words convey meaning if one word supposedly can mean opposite things?

Haven’t seen a poll but a statistically significant number I would wager. Why else would we even be having the conversation. Enough include us that you feel the need to shout it down.

I’m not shutting it down, I’m using language correctly. A handful of western men do not dictate language to the rest of the world.

There is a distinction. That’s the entire reason the “trans/cis” dichotomy is in parlance among trans people. Because we recognize a distinction.

Cis implies gender identity which is wrong. Transwomen complain that they are othered when identified as trans.

Yes. Because that’s how language works. The dictionary isn’t the end all be all of communication.

It’s a far better guide than a small group of men who demand language become altered for their emotional well-being.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Then men doesn’t mean what you say it does and transwomen aren’t women.

You’re free to believe that and use it that way. It’s horrifically insulting but yeah words have a lot of meanings.

Misuse of the language by laymen does not actually mean inflammable means both flammable and not flammable in the lab. Incorrect use of a word, like using woman to refer to a man, is not evolution. It’s obfuscation.

Life ain’t a lab, colloquial use is still language.

How can words convey meaning if one word supposedly can mean opposite things?

Context, cultural understanding.

I’m not shutting it down, I’m using language correctly. A handful of western men do not dictate language to the rest of the world.

Trans people don’t dictate anything. We have no power. Enough normal people have been convinced that we are who we say we are that they’ve moved on our behalf.

Cis implies gender identity which is wrong.

No it doesn’t. It’s just not trans.

Transwomen complain that they are othered when identified as trans.

Unnecessarily sure. Same as anyone with a characteristic they are ashamed of when it’s brought up unnecessarily.

It’s a far better guide than a small group of men who demand language become altered for their emotional well-being.

It’s not up to a mall group of men writing a dictionary either. It’s common usage that makes meaning.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people don’t dictate anything. We have no power. Enough normal people have been convinced that we are who we say we are that they’ve moved on our behalf.

It’s not up to a mall group of men writing a dictionary either. It’s common usage that makes meaning.

Either people who identify as the opposite sex are a marginalized group without any power or they are influential enough to make the rest of the population adopt their sexist definitions. Pick one position, you cannot have it both ways. If people who identify as trans are so powerless as you say, then why would other people care to change the language for them?

No it doesn’t. It’s just not trans.

No, being "cis" means one believes in "gender identity" and that is comfortable with all social norms and stereotypes associated with their sex. If you define women as nothing more than a bunch of sexist stereotypes, then being a "cis" woman is not only about not having the need for transition. It's about embracing the stereotypes asscoiated with the sex they were born. According to the trans paradigm, if a woman were not comfortable with that, then that would mean she is not really "cis, but actually a "transman", "nonbinary" or any other gender identity. Arguing that being "cis" is just about not being trans is disingenuos.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You know I don’t care that your feelings are hurt by my knowing who men are. I absolutely do not care about the hurt feelings of a teensy wee group of men with emotional problems.

You’re still not answering any direct questions, until you manage to answer how we teach geometry with triangle meaning any shape, and say anything more concrete than “but some people use words wrong so language evoooooolves” ima need you to go repeat yourself somewhere else and if you come up with an answer that’s not vague af and evasive, I might bother with ya again.

Yet again you’ve dragged this topic back to your own hurt feelings over woman not meaning man, and won’t answer anything that requires more specifics than a two sentence chant.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You know I don’t care that your feelings are hurt

I’m well aware

You teach it exactly the same. Diagrams , specificity when required. It isn’t difficult to conceive how you would teach it at all.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And when the instructor says draw a triangle, what the fuck is the student meant to draw?

Do you really think it’s effective for words to not have distinct meanings and for everything to rely on context and diagrams? Or is this just the hill you have to die on to never have to admit that transwomen and women are distinct and seperate groups despite trying to force language changes.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And when the instructor says draw a triangle, what the fuck is the student meant to draw?

Something that’s fits with the current definition of triangle. If they wanted what we conceive of as a triangle they could say draw a 3 sided triangle.

Do you really think it’s effective for words to not have distinct meanings and for everything to rely on context and diagrams?

Flexibility in language is important. That’s why we are typing on computers not scribing on thinking machines.