Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

So it's bigoted to know/believe that Caitlyn Jenner is male who "lived as a man" for 65 years, and a highly privileged white man at that, before declaring a new identity as a trans woman?

No.

Are the six children sired by Jenner's sperm bigots for believing Jenner is not only a man, but their father?

Yes.

It's bigoted to believe that Rachel Levine, another father who began self-identifying as a woman at age 54, is a man?

Also yes.

It's bigoted to think that Levine has some nerve when Levine recently bragged about being proud to be the "first female admiral" in US public health?

Depends on what you mean by “some nerve”.

I'm a bigot then

I know.

And I've got plenty of company:

Yeah a lot of people hate trans women. That’s basically what I’m always telling you all when you insist that we control the world with our endless resources and ability to control everyone and pretend that we aren’t marginalized.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, the trans lobby is so powerless and marginalized. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise./s

Feminist professor Kathleen Stock QUITS University of Sussex - after 'bullying and harassment' campaign to oust her by students in trans rights row

But if you all think that not denying biology equals hate, then not matter how many political victories you achieve you all will never be satisfied because people will never really believe trans identified people are the opposite sex.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

Are you a bigot because of what you say about men?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

If you care about cis men, sure. But I don’t so make your own judgment.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

So bigotry only happens if we care about the group we’re discussing?

A lesbian can be bigoted for saying a transwoman is not a woman so she won’t date the transwoman, but you saying a man is a filthy monster who only wants to punch faces isn’t bigoted?

Just trying to understand this very unbalanced idea of what bigotry is.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

A lesbian can be bigoted for saying a transwoman is not a woman

This is the important part, the rest is immaterial.

Also I didn’t say I wasn’t a bigot against men. I said I didn’t care.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If saying trans women are men is bigoted. Then saying god is not real is also bigoted. Then saying cats are not dogs is bigoted.

Also you keep using that word I do think it means what you think it means:

Bigoted: obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Non believer does not equal bigot. Atheists like myself who think all religions are make believe nonsense can get along just fine with religious folks we just agree to disagree and carry on with normal life. Gender atheists likewise can get along with transgenderists without believing in the gender ideology. People not believing what you believe is not oppression, it is not bigotry. No one owes you agreement or validation.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you jump to dehumanizing comparisons that quick you have to see what you are doing is wrong. God isn’t a marginalized person. Cats aren’t people.

Telling someone you know who they are and they don’t then accusing them of being a member of a religion is a pretty fucked up thing to do. Comparing us to animals and then evangelizing your bigotry as fact doesn’t make you not a bigot. Being trans isn’t a religion no matter how much you pretend it is.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's pretty obvious the examples were not used with the intent to dehumanize anyone. You better stop with the baseless accussations already because I'm this close to ban you forever and ever if you don't learn to behave in a civil manner.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are honestly going to say comparing a trans woman to someone who thinks they are a cat isn’t intended to dehumanize?

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The actual example used was stating cats are not dogs, not someone claiming to be a cat. Either way, the comparison was about saying things that are not true. You may find this "invalidating", but the comparison is not about questioning your humanity or advocating for harming you.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Why should we care about men who say they are women, then?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Trans women aren’t men. No one says you have to, but unlike cis men we are marginalized and vulnerable if that matters to you. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

They absolutely are. Your choice not to acknowledge that doesn’t change how the sexes work.

So can only marginalised people be spoken about in a bigoted way? I’m just trying to understand wtf you define bigotry as, cause it’s not how anyone here or any dictionary uses it.

If it’s ok to be bigoted towards certain groups, why should we care about tra saying we are bigoted?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

No. They aren’t. Your insistence on failing to recognize a distinction between sex and gender isn’t universal.

Bigotry is only my concern when it is against the marginalized. I don’t care if someone is anti white or anti men. They are in control. Trans women aren’t in control. They’re a marginalized group. That’s the difference.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

What does gender have to do with sexuality?

You know I only use sexed pronouns and you won’t change it by trying to “correct” me.

People don’t have genderalities, they have sexuality.

So men who gain control of women’s spaces, we can be as “bigoted” as we please since they took power over the space?