Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

So bigotry only happens if we care about the group we’re discussing?

A lesbian can be bigoted for saying a transwoman is not a woman so she won’t date the transwoman, but you saying a man is a filthy monster who only wants to punch faces isn’t bigoted?

Just trying to understand this very unbalanced idea of what bigotry is.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

A lesbian can be bigoted for saying a transwoman is not a woman

This is the important part, the rest is immaterial.

Also I didn’t say I wasn’t a bigot against men. I said I didn’t care.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If saying trans women are men is bigoted. Then saying god is not real is also bigoted. Then saying cats are not dogs is bigoted.

Also you keep using that word I do think it means what you think it means:

Bigoted: obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Non believer does not equal bigot. Atheists like myself who think all religions are make believe nonsense can get along just fine with religious folks we just agree to disagree and carry on with normal life. Gender atheists likewise can get along with transgenderists without believing in the gender ideology. People not believing what you believe is not oppression, it is not bigotry. No one owes you agreement or validation.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you jump to dehumanizing comparisons that quick you have to see what you are doing is wrong. God isn’t a marginalized person. Cats aren’t people.

Telling someone you know who they are and they don’t then accusing them of being a member of a religion is a pretty fucked up thing to do. Comparing us to animals and then evangelizing your bigotry as fact doesn’t make you not a bigot. Being trans isn’t a religion no matter how much you pretend it is.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's pretty obvious the examples were not used with the intent to dehumanize anyone. You better stop with the baseless accussations already because I'm this close to ban you forever and ever if you don't learn to behave in a civil manner.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are honestly going to say comparing a trans woman to someone who thinks they are a cat isn’t intended to dehumanize?

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The actual example used was stating cats are not dogs, not someone claiming to be a cat. Either way, the comparison was about saying things that are not true. You may find this "invalidating", but the comparison is not about questioning your humanity or advocating for harming you.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Why should we care about men who say they are women, then?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Trans women aren’t men. No one says you have to, but unlike cis men we are marginalized and vulnerable if that matters to you. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

They absolutely are. Your choice not to acknowledge that doesn’t change how the sexes work.

So can only marginalised people be spoken about in a bigoted way? I’m just trying to understand wtf you define bigotry as, cause it’s not how anyone here or any dictionary uses it.

If it’s ok to be bigoted towards certain groups, why should we care about tra saying we are bigoted?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

No. They aren’t. Your insistence on failing to recognize a distinction between sex and gender isn’t universal.

Bigotry is only my concern when it is against the marginalized. I don’t care if someone is anti white or anti men. They are in control. Trans women aren’t in control. They’re a marginalized group. That’s the difference.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

What does gender have to do with sexuality?

You know I only use sexed pronouns and you won’t change it by trying to “correct” me.

People don’t have genderalities, they have sexuality.

So men who gain control of women’s spaces, we can be as “bigoted” as we please since they took power over the space?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

What does gender have to do with sexuality?

Other than setting the role in the structure?

And you know I think that’s transphobic and that won’t change. Doesn’t mean I’m just going to cede you that you get a free pass misgendering.

Attraction has more to do with appearance than chromosomes. But also I’m wasn’t even talking about attraction. For the hundredth time, attraction isn’t the point, the underlying beliefs are.

I don’t even know what you are asking in that last paragraph. Men control everything.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What role? Males and females don’t have inherent roles in relationships and sexual reproductive roles have nothing to do with gender.

It’s not the hundredth time, and frankly, it’s a little hard to follow. You’re really not in any position to get pissy at anybody in the sub either. Would you prefer I not ask you for clarification and just dismiss everything you say as silly? Cause that works for me tbh.

Whinging about a woman knowing humans are sexed is a waste of your time and mine but you do you, buddy.

Sex is far more than chromosomes and nobody is making the claim that sexuality is attraction to chromosomes.

The last paragraph is about transwomen. They are the men I’m talking about.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What role?

Yeah. As in where in the categorization of relationships. If I were in a relationship with a woman it wouldn’t be a straight relationship. If I were with a man it would be.

Ok so now what justifies a tra asking anybody to analyse their sexuality for alleged bigotry? What is the goal of tra is asking or expecting people to examine their sexuality for why it excludes who it excludes? Who benefits from this analysis?

Pretty sure you are. My assertion is that it’s about appearance and secondary characteristics rather than sex itself. You disagree. How isn’t that just attraction to chromosomes?

The last paragraph is about transwomen. They are the men I’m talking about.

Well trans women aren’t men and don’t control anything so it didn’t make sense.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So, why aren't you dating "transmen"? If TWAW, then TMAM. And your problem is only with the evil "cis" men, right? "Transmen" should be fair game. Why don't you even entertain the possibility of dating them? You don't because you know deep down "transmen" are female and you're only attracted to males, don't you? Aren't you a bigot according to your own beliefs? And yet you think you're entintled to call other people bigots for, like you, not playing along with the "identities" of trans identified people in the bed...

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t know what gave you the idea I was exclusively attracted to men. I’m attracted to men and have been with more men than women but I’m not only attracted to men. I am bi identified. But I don’t date all anymore so who I would date is largely academic.

And actually I have been trying to unpack my transphobia on this. I do think trans men are better than cis men, and separate them which is transphobic. But I never claimed to be prefect.