you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]MarkTwainiac 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

No, these facile, simplistic, sexist, misogynistic stereotypes are not true in my experience.

ETA: the stereotypes being presented as the norm here exclude the possibility of mutuality. They depict human sexuality only in terms of power relations. The idea that males are active & females are passive - & that one partner must be a dom, the other must be a sub - is not reflective of many/a majority of IRL relationships & encounters.

[–]worried19[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Thanks for the reply. I find your perspective valuable because I know you came of age during the 70s and 80s, so you got to experience having male lovers before they were corrupted en masse by kink and porn culture.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, it was a different world entirely. I often think that women of my generation lived our earlier lives in a rare "golden age." Not that it was really a golden age by objective standards, just that it was so much better than the misogynistic, porn-soaked, abusive shit show that you younger women face today.

I started having sexual encounters with boys when I was 13 in 1967. These encounters consisted of hours-long sessions of "making out" (kissing progressing to "French kissing"), "petting" or "feeling up," frottage & eventually the boys sticking their hands in my pants & fingering my clit until I came.

I engaged in this sort of activity for several years without any one of my nice, kind, decent, respectful BFs ever putting my hand on his dick, exposing his dick to me, asking me to give him a hand job or blow job, pressuring me to have PIV, or demanding or encouraging me to disrobe.

I didn't have PIV until I was 16, & I did so with a boy/young man 18 months older whom I loved & who loved me & who treated me like a goddess (actually too much so). We didn't get involved until I was 15, but he says he instantly fell in love with me the first time he saw me when he was 13/14 & I was 12. (I know this because now that I've entered the stage of life where my principal orientation is "retrosexual," he & I have been in close contact & talking a lot about what happened between us many decades ago.)

I don't recall any of the men that I & my same-age friends dated & married asking us to give them blow jobs until the mid-late 1980s - & when they did ask back then, they didn't demand. In the 80s & 90s, males were grateful to get blow jobs from women. And the vast majority of "regular" het guys back then most certainly did not expect women to let them penetrate us anally. The very idea was outside the Overton window.

As to the claim that women's sexual

pleasure is from being the “target,” the “prize,” the figure of maximum desire. That IS their sexual pleasure.

I can only say that I have often experienced the pleasure of being the target, prize & figure of another person's sexual desire, but that is not the sole or main source of my or other women's pleasure. Rather, it's incidental. The pleasure of being desired by another person is small potatoes compared to the sexual pleasure that comes [sic,LOL] from the female ability to orgasm.

Also, although I am not an overt sexual aggressor, from my early teens on I often set my sights on a particular boy or man who caught my fancy & I pursued him. Usually with success.

I've also been in a relationship where I had more of a desire for sex than my male partner did.

But in general, reducing all sexual encounters to dom & sub doesn't jibe with my own experience or the reality of most people I know. Most het women who've felt free to express themselves sexually have enjoyed straddling men in the "on top" position as much as being fucked missionary or doggie style.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It sure does seem like a different world. By the time I was in my early teens, blowjobs were completely standard. Although I would hope that most decent guys don't actually ask for them, I bet a lot of girls and young women feel pressured to give them. I personally very much enjoy giving oral sex, but I have a serious aversion to the types of painful, degrading blowjobs that have been depicted in porn. Mutual and pleasurable oral exploration is quite different in my book.

Did men perform oral sex on women back then, or was that similarly more unusual? Did it seem as though men were invested in women's orgasms? I wonder how many girls nowadays have the experience of young teenage boys actually bringing them to orgasm through manual stimulation like that. I would assume not many.

Rather, it's incidental.

That's how I feel about it. I enjoy when my partner looks at me with lust and desire, of course, but my pleasure revolves around the entire sexual experience, physical, mental, and emotional.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Did men perform oral sex on women back then, or was that similarly more unusual?

IME & the experience of women around my same age, men in the 70s, 80s, 90s & 2000s were very much into performing oral sex on women. Women often were the ones saying, "no thank you, not tonight."

Did it seem as though men were invested in women's orgasms?

Yes, very much so. Boys & men took pride in this & often bragged about it to others of their own sex.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish I could go back in time to the 70s. I feel like there must have been such a sense of hope about feminism back then. That there was this unlimited potential for things to get better for women. It's sad to know that things that regressed so dramatically since then, sexually and otherwise.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I have never seen porn in my life. I don't desire sex in general but if I had it I could not stand the dominant role, but I could probably enjoy the submissive one if I were able to ignore the gross sexual aspect. This is entirely natural for me. Though I've never met another male who feels the same way.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What about sex that doesn't involve BDSM? There don't have to be dominant or submissive roles.

What do you mean by "gross sexual aspect?"

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I don't like seeing others' private parts, and I don't want my penis touching another person let alone inside of one of the grossest parts of them. Having sex with someone would be both boring and gross to me.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Fair enough. Since you're asexual, I can't imagine you would enjoy it nor should you feel pressured to engage in anything you don't want to do.

But just so you know, it doesn't have to involve BDSM. I've never had sex where a power dynamic was involved.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's the only way I could like it. Though I would still prefer there not to be any sex, or even nudity.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why would you like that? You want people to control you or treat you badly?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I would love to be kidnapped by a woman (unless she's ugly). You know about as much as I do as to why. No sexual acts, no nudity, those gross me out.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think it's related to some sort of trauma?