QT/Trans: Trans women say feminism and women's rights should include ALL women, and this means anyone who identifies as a woman. But 99% of women are cis. Why then do trans women not care about the history and rights of 99% of women?

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

We all know vast swathes of the world hate women and want our rights taken away. Telling us how you agree with them doesn’t explain why men expressing femininity being considered more important than protecting women from rape is something you apparently agree with.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (16 children)

Trans women aren't men. We define gender identity as a personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither.

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten 40% of women. Are you going to tell these women that they hate themselves?

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

We're aware that you think "transwomen" are women based in their "gender identities". Maybe I missed it, but I think you have not explained what having a "gender identity" means yet. So, if "trans women" are women, what do they have in common with you and me? How do they know they are women? If their "identities" are based on gender roles, wouldn't this conflict with your goal of abolishing gender roles? Also, how can we differentiate between a "true trans woman" and a "cis" man pretending to be one for nefarious motives?

[–]AlexisK 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, how can we differentiate between a "true trans woman" and a "cis" man pretending to be one for nefarious motives?

You reminded me about this article from 2018:

https://i.imgur.com/wCHKrED.png

https://i.imgur.com/RoupdIX.png

And this from 2015:

https://i.imgur.com/dtNV2nJ.png

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Gender identity is the personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither. I was born female, and love being female (except for periods). If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery. The thought of me having a penis freaks me out. I'm sure trans women feel the same way, and trans men feel the same way for the opposite reasons.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That still don't tell me what you think being female is. What does make someone female, male, both or neither? By the way, you may be surprised to hear that many "trans women" doesn't feel distressed because of their penises. Quite the contrary, actually, many of the are very fond of their penises. Have you ever hear about "girldick" and simmilar terms? Most "trans women" don't undergone genital surgery, in fact. Also, many of them don't have any problem to make references to their penises when sending rape threaths to dissenting women.

Some other relevant links:

https://terfisaslur.com/

https://lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/

J. K. Rowling and the trans activists: a story in screenshots

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery.

Sorry, that kind of mental exercise is just silly. It's like saying, "If I were born in ancient China, or if I were born a gazelle, or if I were born in the year 3,500, if I were born with 100 legs..." Such imaginary scenarios might be fun (for some) to speculate about when stoned, perhaps, but they don't constitute grounds for trying to radically rearrange all of human society and impose all the authoritarian rules you want to put in place. Moreover, they provide zero insight in human psychology, self-concept formation, and the fact & implications of being one sex or the other. Fact is, you're not gonna wake up one day and find you were born male, coz it's a total impossibility, and you have no idea how you'd feel.

Funny thing is, even when humans do go through events that likely will happen to the majority of us in the course of our lifetimes - parent or both parents dying; having a serious health scare or disease; getting our heart broken; getting married; having a baby/becoming a parent; achieving some long-pursued goal that we've dreamt of for years - it's often the case that how we actually feel at the time is rather different to what we imagined beforehand.

The thought of me having a penis freaks me out. I'm sure trans women feel the same way, and trans men feel the same way.

Uh, most trans people are fine with their genitals. Fewer than 5% of males who identify as the opposite sex get genital surgery. Many love their dicks and balls, which is why they don't want to part with them. Many just rebrand their penises as as lady dicks and girl cocks.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

So, how do the women who hate being female and who hate their bodies (of which there are a ton in our patriarchal society) fit into this? Are they trans? I have heard plenty of people say they wouldn't care if they were the opposite sex, and I'm one of those (and I would expect anyone who sees men and women as equals to say the same). Are we all trans? And how does just wanting to be something make you that in any relevant way? How does merely wishing to be something create actual experiences of a lifetime of what it's like to be and be treated as that something?

If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery.

Except according to QT, there is nothing to transition to or from because the sexes aren't real, and male and female bodies/genitalia are only defined by how you perceive them. By merely seeing yourself as female, you and everything about your body would automatically be female. Your penis would be a clit, and your anus would now be a vagina. And why do you even think you'd feel distress? According to QT, you do not need gender dysphoria to be trans, and you certainly don't need to transition at all, most definitely not through surgery.

I'm wondering if you're genuinely unaware of this, or if it slipped out of you by accident.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You completely avoided answering the questions in the post, thought. What is common between them and us (whic is more common than between them and men), that we need to group them with us and not with men?

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tellingly, the writeup of the poll results doesn't say or show how the question was asked. Nor does it break down the respondents by such important factors as age.

As the responses on this thread and sub to the dictatorial ideas and proposals you've made show, most people are not illiberal authoritarians - so if you ask the average person in a casual, cursory way "do you think trans people should be allowed to use toilets they feel most comfortable in like everyone else?" most people will say of course. Coz most of us are NOT keen to deny other people their rights and freedoms - that's your bag. But when asked, "do you think 13 year-old-girls and grown women should be forced to share public toilets with adult males?" most people will say no.

Since opinion polls can easily be rigged to yield the desired results, I'm surprised only 4 out of 10 female respondents assented to the idea of males in the female loos - and females in the male ones. That means 60% are against. In a national election, winning 60% of the vote would be an unprecedented landslide.

https://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA

Also, when coming up with public policy is about safeguarding and risk mitigation, the opinion and advice of seasoned experts holds the most weight, not what uninformed people on the street say.

As I said before, the policies you advocate for don't appear well thought-out or to be based on much knowledge of the issues at hand or the history of what led to the current practices and provisions in the first place.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cant speak for anyone else, but I would tell these women the same thing I have told conservative and antifeminist women: that they do not have the best interests of the majority of women, including their own, at heart, because their beliefs conflict directly with the safety and well-being of the majority of women. That’s usually the point where I get told to fuck off. But c’est la vie

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, I think they are ignorant and have latched onto “be nice” pseudo feminism that serves to give men what they want. Trans women are male and being adult and male is the only thing that makes someone a man.

You’re preaching gender to a non believer who cannot be converted. Try “correcting” my language and ignoring the point til you’re blue in the face if you must but it’s a waste of time.

Please address ideas instead of policing language.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

No, I think they are ignorant and have latched onto “be nice” pseudo feminism that serves to give men what they want. Trans women are male and being adult and male is the only thing that makes someone a man.

These women also believe trans men should have the right to use the men's restroom. The transgender movement is also about trans men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Duh. I don’t care if women choose to stupidly put themselves at risk by using the men’s rooms. We’ve been over this before gb.

Transmen are still women latched onto fake feminism that hurts female rights and advancement. They are still ignorant of feminism.

My entire point still stands regardless of how much attention it pays to transmen.

[–]Juniperius 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't tell them that they hate themselves, but I would tell them that a large majority of transwomen like, intend to keep, and continue to use sexually their dicks, and I would bet real money that after hearing that, at least half of those women would change their minds.