QT/Trans: Trans women say feminism and women's rights should include ALL women, and this means anyone who identifies as a woman. But 99% of women are cis. Why then do trans women not care about the history and rights of 99% of women?

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[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

But the rights of TW and TG under Title IX aren't the same. By competing in female sports, or vying for female scholarships or places in programs set aside for girls & women, males claiming an opposite-sex gender identity are creating unfairness for females, and taking places & opportunities away from us. Girls and women are getting displaced, shoved aside and told we don't matter as much as males all over again.

I'm all for TG and TW being able to participate in sports and all academic programs, and to be treated respectfully and fairly. But in those instances where it's justified to have sex separation and sex distinction - such as female sports, locker rooms, toilets, scholarships and specialty academic programs and training involving female medical or intimate care specifically (such as PT that involves vaginal penetration) - I think the place for TG and TW is with members of their own sex.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (21 children)

I think the only institution where sex segregated spaces are justified is sports.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

It's good, then, that you are not the boss of the world or any state, country, municipality, school district, school administration or sports governing body. Coz your opinion isn't the shared by vast swathes of the population. Moreover, other people's opinions count too - not just yours.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (19 children)

Your opinion also isn't shared by vast swathes of the population. Trans people have sued for not being allowed to use the restroom or locker room that matches their gender identity, and won. In my state, it is illegal to harass a person for using a restroom that doesn't match their birth sex, and there are notices put up that violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

We all know vast swathes of the world hate women and want our rights taken away. Telling us how you agree with them doesn’t explain why men expressing femininity being considered more important than protecting women from rape is something you apparently agree with.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (16 children)

Trans women aren't men. We define gender identity as a personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither.

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten 40% of women. Are you going to tell these women that they hate themselves?

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

We're aware that you think "transwomen" are women based in their "gender identities". Maybe I missed it, but I think you have not explained what having a "gender identity" means yet. So, if "trans women" are women, what do they have in common with you and me? How do they know they are women? If their "identities" are based on gender roles, wouldn't this conflict with your goal of abolishing gender roles? Also, how can we differentiate between a "true trans woman" and a "cis" man pretending to be one for nefarious motives?

[–]AlexisK 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, how can we differentiate between a "true trans woman" and a "cis" man pretending to be one for nefarious motives?

You reminded me about this article from 2018:

https://i.imgur.com/wCHKrED.png

https://i.imgur.com/RoupdIX.png

And this from 2015:

https://i.imgur.com/dtNV2nJ.png

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Gender identity is the personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither. I was born female, and love being female (except for periods). If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery. The thought of me having a penis freaks me out. I'm sure trans women feel the same way, and trans men feel the same way for the opposite reasons.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That still don't tell me what you think being female is. What does make someone female, male, both or neither? By the way, you may be surprised to hear that many "trans women" doesn't feel distressed because of their penises. Quite the contrary, actually, many of the are very fond of their penises. Have you ever hear about "girldick" and simmilar terms? Most "trans women" don't undergone genital surgery, in fact. Also, many of them don't have any problem to make references to their penises when sending rape threaths to dissenting women.

Some other relevant links:

https://terfisaslur.com/

https://lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/

J. K. Rowling and the trans activists: a story in screenshots

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery.

Sorry, that kind of mental exercise is just silly. It's like saying, "If I were born in ancient China, or if I were born a gazelle, or if I were born in the year 3,500, if I were born with 100 legs..." Such imaginary scenarios might be fun (for some) to speculate about when stoned, perhaps, but they don't constitute grounds for trying to radically rearrange all of human society and impose all the authoritarian rules you want to put in place. Moreover, they provide zero insight in human psychology, self-concept formation, and the fact & implications of being one sex or the other. Fact is, you're not gonna wake up one day and find you were born male, coz it's a total impossibility, and you have no idea how you'd feel.

Funny thing is, even when humans do go through events that likely will happen to the majority of us in the course of our lifetimes - parent or both parents dying; having a serious health scare or disease; getting our heart broken; getting married; having a baby/becoming a parent; achieving some long-pursued goal that we've dreamt of for years - it's often the case that how we actually feel at the time is rather different to what we imagined beforehand.

The thought of me having a penis freaks me out. I'm sure trans women feel the same way, and trans men feel the same way.

Uh, most trans people are fine with their genitals. Fewer than 5% of males who identify as the opposite sex get genital surgery. Many love their dicks and balls, which is why they don't want to part with them. Many just rebrand their penises as as lady dicks and girl cocks.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

So, how do the women who hate being female and who hate their bodies (of which there are a ton in our patriarchal society) fit into this? Are they trans? I have heard plenty of people say they wouldn't care if they were the opposite sex, and I'm one of those (and I would expect anyone who sees men and women as equals to say the same). Are we all trans? And how does just wanting to be something make you that in any relevant way? How does merely wishing to be something create actual experiences of a lifetime of what it's like to be and be treated as that something?

If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery.

Except according to QT, there is nothing to transition to or from because the sexes aren't real, and male and female bodies/genitalia are only defined by how you perceive them. By merely seeing yourself as female, you and everything about your body would automatically be female. Your penis would be a clit, and your anus would now be a vagina. And why do you even think you'd feel distress? According to QT, you do not need gender dysphoria to be trans, and you certainly don't need to transition at all, most definitely not through surgery.

I'm wondering if you're genuinely unaware of this, or if it slipped out of you by accident.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You completely avoided answering the questions in the post, thought. What is common between them and us (whic is more common than between them and men), that we need to group them with us and not with men?

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tellingly, the writeup of the poll results doesn't say or show how the question was asked. Nor does it break down the respondents by such important factors as age.

As the responses on this thread and sub to the dictatorial ideas and proposals you've made show, most people are not illiberal authoritarians - so if you ask the average person in a casual, cursory way "do you think trans people should be allowed to use toilets they feel most comfortable in like everyone else?" most people will say of course. Coz most of us are NOT keen to deny other people their rights and freedoms - that's your bag. But when asked, "do you think 13 year-old-girls and grown women should be forced to share public toilets with adult males?" most people will say no.

Since opinion polls can easily be rigged to yield the desired results, I'm surprised only 4 out of 10 female respondents assented to the idea of males in the female loos - and females in the male ones. That means 60% are against. In a national election, winning 60% of the vote would be an unprecedented landslide.

https://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA

Also, when coming up with public policy is about safeguarding and risk mitigation, the opinion and advice of seasoned experts holds the most weight, not what uninformed people on the street say.

As I said before, the policies you advocate for don't appear well thought-out or to be based on much knowledge of the issues at hand or the history of what led to the current practices and provisions in the first place.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cant speak for anyone else, but I would tell these women the same thing I have told conservative and antifeminist women: that they do not have the best interests of the majority of women, including their own, at heart, because their beliefs conflict directly with the safety and well-being of the majority of women. That’s usually the point where I get told to fuck off. But c’est la vie

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, I think they are ignorant and have latched onto “be nice” pseudo feminism that serves to give men what they want. Trans women are male and being adult and male is the only thing that makes someone a man.

You’re preaching gender to a non believer who cannot be converted. Try “correcting” my language and ignoring the point til you’re blue in the face if you must but it’s a waste of time.

Please address ideas instead of policing language.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

No, I think they are ignorant and have latched onto “be nice” pseudo feminism that serves to give men what they want. Trans women are male and being adult and male is the only thing that makes someone a man.

These women also believe trans men should have the right to use the men's restroom. The transgender movement is also about trans men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Duh. I don’t care if women choose to stupidly put themselves at risk by using the men’s rooms. We’ve been over this before gb.

Transmen are still women latched onto fake feminism that hurts female rights and advancement. They are still ignorant of feminism.

My entire point still stands regardless of how much attention it pays to transmen.

[–]Juniperius 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't tell them that they hate themselves, but I would tell them that a large majority of transwomen like, intend to keep, and continue to use sexually their dicks, and I would bet real money that after hearing that, at least half of those women would change their minds.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, you are just showing you really are clueless about how law gets made and refined in the USA and other similar countries like the UK, LOL. And how anti-democratic you are.

Legislators in male-dominated legislatures in your state or municipality might well have passed laws saying males who have an opposite-sex or no sex "gender identity" now have free access to girls/women's loos & locker rooms so they can "fully express their femininity" or whatever, and that it's an act of "harassment" for girls or women to question why all the ladies toilets and locker room are increasingly full of males "performing gender," pissing all over the seats and floors, loitering about having a laugh, leering or pestering the female "folx" and some are even using these spaces to jerk off in - and then are posting footage of themselves doing so online. Authoritarian trans activists operating like tinpot despots & working in government agencies, trans lobby orgs or just on their own accord might have drawn up, printed out and put up hectoring notices in girls & women's toilets & locker rooms telling us that anyone who questions the presence of males in such spaces or even dares gives them side-eye are "violators" who "will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." And some male jurists in lower level courts might have ruled the demand of some trans people to use the toilets and locker rooms meant for the opposite sex trumps other people's desire & need to keep those spaces sex-specific. But until the new rules are challenged & tested in the higher federal courts - as they will be - and they are upheld by the higher federal courts, which is a very big IF, they cannot be considered settled law.

You might have won a few battles in the short term, pal, but I predict that in the long term things are not going to go the way you want. Look what's already happened in the UK. Yesterday, the Telegraph revealed that the government has decided that

Public buildings will be forced to have separate male and female toilets under plans to target activists for 'gender-neutral' loos.

Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick is to rewrite planning regulations to enshrine separate stalls in new buildings and demand partitions be installed in current unisex facilities.

The Telegraph reported that the move was in response to claims that women were finding it hard to find single-sex facilities.

It said the change would apply to offices, shops and entertainment venues, plus hospitals and other public services. It will also apply to buildings undergoing refurbishment, where consent is required for the works.

A source close to Mr Jenrick told the paper: 'It's a necessity for women to have access to their own provision of toilets, but too often separate sex toilets are being removed by stealth - causing great distress.

'We've listened to the concerns raised by women and the elderly about their security, dignity and safety and are going to maintain and improve safe guards by updating regulations in order to ensure that there is always the necessary provision of separate toilets for everyone in the community.

'These changes will help to maintain safeguards that protect women and the proper provision of separate toilets, which has long been a regulatory requirement, will be retained and improved. We recognise there needs to be a public service provision for everyone in our community, and want to help to deliver on that objective.'

Now in the UK, all the schools, workplaces and public places like the Old Vic Theater that went ahead and removed single-sex loos and change rooms in line with the preferences, demands and faulty guidance of gender ideologues will have to change them all back.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9584757/Gents-ladies-toilets-compulsory-public-buildings-new-planning-laws.html

Back in the 1960s and 70s when "women's liberation" emerged, a lot of men were shocked to find out just how pissed off vast numbers of women were, and and how quickly & effectively women got organized too. There's another similar groundswell happening right now. Some advice from the past seems apropos: https://youtu.be/yKHUGvde7KU