QT: Do you understand why women need single sex spaces?

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (34 children)

Why are you against safeguarding so much? This is so bizzare.

Just because I'm against sex-segregated spaces in particular, doesn't mean I'm against safeguarding.

Ah, I see, you are from that part of people, who believe that women are guilty in being raped.

Victims are never to blame for their rape.

Why you can't name the problem? It is males who are raping females. Men who are raping women, in 99+% cases, depending on country. Do not obscure problem, as problem can not be solved if it can not be named.

Women abusing men is more common than that. The problem is men are much less likely to be taken seriously when they report abuse by women. Here's an article on WaPo about trans men. Trystan Cotton is a black trans man and a professor of gender studies at California State University Stanislaus. When he worked at another university pre-transition and presenting as a woman, he was harassed by males and the university reacted immediately, even sending a police escort with him to and from campus. After he transitioned he was harassed at this university by a female student he was mentoring, and his adviser and the dean — both women — laughed it off. Why the difference in responses? Is it because now he's a big scary tough guy who can't be abused by women? While I believe more men abuse women than vice versa, women abusing men is more common than you think. Read this study titled A Review of Research on Women’s Use of Violence With Male Intimate Partners.

One study of 2,991 Air Force personnel who committed physical abuse against a spouse found that 23% of the offenders were female

Studies with college samples also find that men and women commit similar rates of physical aggression (Cercone, Beach, & Arias, 2005) or that a higher prevalence of women commit physical aggression (Straus, 2004).

But many people believe women don't abuse men, especially many (but not all) gender criticals. Here is a post from the old GC sub.

Get it through your heads. Women. Don't. Abuse. Men. PERIOD. Women don't have physical power over men. Women are not threatening to men. Women are not a danger to men. Women do not have power over men or advantages over men.

That comment was upvoted by many GCs. The person who wrote the next comment was downvoted and their comment was removed by the mods.

This is bullshit. How fucking dare you. Women have abused men. No where near the numbers that MRAs claim, that is true. But my mother tried to kill my father and her children because she didn't want us anymore. I have friends who had abusive mothers, who were also abusive to their husbands. And no, our fathers were not abusive. Just because they couldn't match men in physical strength didn't mean that they couldn't cause hurt.

Read this thread on Ovarit titled "Abuse is not "just female related" - it happens vice verse all the time, even if it's not that visual but it hurts even more." Sure, buddy, whatever you say.. They linked to a reddit post where a man says there should be more films and shows about women abusing men. Ovarit mocked the OP, even saying "men actually have the expectation of being treated well" when that's not always the case. Here is an article on Feminist Current making up false statistics on women abusing men.

While in this society it's difficult for female abuse victims to be taken seriously, male abuse victims are much, much less likely than female victims to be taken serious. Just as trans men. They've seen sexism from both sides and can tell you the differences in how they were treated as females vs. males.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (33 children)

If women are so violent, abusive, and dangerous to males, why on earth is it so crucial to y’all that males get access to female spaces?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 4 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 7 fun -  (32 children)

Not all women are abusive to males. Not all males are abusive to women.

Keep in mind this is also a trans men fight. Trans men are fighting for access to male facilities as much as trans women are fighting for access to female facilities.

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

Keep in mind this is also a trans men fight. Trans men are fighting for access to male facilities as much as trans women are fighting for access to female facilities.

Does that include prisons? There was a case here in Argentina of a convicted "trans man" who was sent to a men's prison. For a "mysterious" reason, she was very against the idea of going there with the men. Despite her protests, a judge decided that she belonged there because, legally, she was a "man". Do "trans men" in general agree with this judge criterion? Would they fight for the right of their "gender identities" being respected even in prison?

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Snarky from the old debate sub said he would choose to go to a male prison. So maybe there are some trans men who would try it. I have a feeling, though, that the vast majority would understand the extreme risk and decline.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Maybe. I think is easy to talk about hypothetical scenaries, especially if they are not likely to happen. So, it's possible Snarky would think otherwise if she were faced with the reality of going to prison.

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Perhaps, but Snarky was (and I presume still is) involved in very dangerous situations. I don't know if you remember the story about the fake kidnapping and rape. I certainly hope Snarky would reconsider if ever faced with this scenario in real life.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Ah, that changes it all. I wasn't at the old debate sub and I joined here this year. So, I don't know who Snarky is.

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I invited Snarky here, but he declined. I think he didn't want to join Saidit. One of our more interesting posters from the old debate sub. We lost a lot of good QT people in the transition. Although I think Snarky was more of a transmedicalist.

[–]questioningtw 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

Hi! I decided to come back over here. I miss Snarky too along with MrFahrenheit. It still makes me mad that the subbreddit was banned when we had so many interesting people. I hope Snarky is ok because that situation was really scary.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

I know there have been bathroom lawsuits by trans men. Gavin Grimm sued the school board because his high school wouldn't let him use the boy's bathroom. Drew Adams also sued his school for not being able to use the boy's bathroom. As for prisons, I read somewhere 4 trans men in California requested to be placed in male prisons. I usually agree with the ACLU, but I hate that they blocked a request for finding our how many trans people asked to be housed in prisons in accordance to their gender identity.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Well, that is interesting... Though 4 is a low number compared all the Californian males who identifies as trans hoping to be place with the women. Though is hard to make a proper comparison because there are fewer females in prison. It would be interesting to know which proportion of "trans men" requested to be placed according to ther "gender identity" and which proportion of "trans women" did likewise. Then again, Californian women's prison won't be safes for females, regardless of how they identify, if trans males start being sent there.

As for the ACLU, it's obvious they don't want this information to be made public because most people woulnd't agree with this policy.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

Well, that is interesting... Though 4 is a low number compared all the Californian males who identifies as trans hoping to be place with the women. Though is hard to make a proper comparison because there are fewer females in prison. It would be interesting to know which proportion of "trans men" requested to be placed according to ther "gender identity" and which proportion of "trans women" did likewise. Then again, Californian women's prison won't be safes for females, regardless of how they identify, if trans identified males start being sent there.

I think the same source said 13 trans women requested to be transferred to women's prisons but I'm not sure the exact number. Also, isn't the term "trans identified males" not allowed?

As for the ACLU, it's obvious they don't want this information to be made public because most people woulnd't agree with this policy.

Most people in the US are not gender critical. Also, cis women are less likely to be gender critical than cis men.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think the same source said 13 trans women requested to be transferred to women's prisons but I'm not sure the exact number.

Just 13? This news article suggests there are hundres of request from transgender inmates.

Also, isn't the term "trans identified males" not allowed?

I just changed it. Grixit said he would allow this term (but not the acronym), though the new rules hasn't been officialized yet.

Most people in the US are not gender critical. Also, cis women are less likely to be gender critical than cis men.

Most people in the US are likely not aware of what activists actually mean by trans rights. American liberal media takes a great effort to ofuscate the issue. For instance, they often talk about how Republicans want to ban trans identified athletes from sports, when actually they are being asked to compete according to their biological sex. The article from the LA Times that I linked above dismiss female inmates's worries as transphobia or propaganda.

This is by design. The activists that are changing laws worlwide know how umpopular their aims are and that is why they work behind the backstage. Here are two articles talking about transactivists secretism in the UK:

The document that reveals the remarkable tactics of trans lobbyists

Revealed: the secret trans-rights lobbying operation in parliament

Something similar happened in my country. When transactivists lobbied for making self-ID possible, they were clever enough not to make a big deal of access to sex seggregated spaces. They focused on the concept of identity and how this law, supposedly, wouldn't affect anyone else. Just an change in their documents that would make their lives more easy, they say. However, although the gender identity law of 2012 says nothing about sex seggregated spaces, it has been used to priorititise "gender identity" over sex. Because it turns out if you are legally a "woman" or a "man" you should be treated as such by the law.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Most people in the US are likely not aware of what activists actually mean by trans rights. American liberal media takes a great effort to ofuscate the issue. For instance, they often talk about how Republicans want to ban trans identified athletes from sports, when actually they are being asked to compete according to their biological sex.

Most people know the sports thing is about trans women being made to compete with men. Most of us are not stupid.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't say they were stupid. I said they were misinformed, which is different. Anyway, the sports seems to have exploded recently there, so problaby many people are waking up about what is happening. This poll from WoLF suggests trans activists' aims are not popular with Americans. If you think WoLF is biased, here is another poll, made by Politico, that shows that Republican laws regarding trans athletes have wide support.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

cis women are less likely to be gender critical than cis men.

??? men are known for their misogyny, which doesn't change much regardless of whether they identify as feminist or as women or whatever else. Progressive female communities on the other hand tend to dedicate a lot of discussion to the issue, even if the (sometimes even correct) conclusions tend to get drowned in coddling men's feelings. The notion that men are more gender critical than women is laughable. Even progressive liberal men don't pay gender much mind and mainly revolve their opinions on it around which porn they jack off to and wanting to be open about their fetishes. They also expect and jerk off to femininity in women. The depth of male opinions on the issue can pretty much be described by that "are traps gay" meme. Some gay men might take on a more nuanced approach to gender, but even they are getting pushed out by the loud-mouthed "just like any other dude" gay men.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

According to a poll, 59% of men support banning trans women in women's sports compared tp 46% of women. 29% of men oppose banning trans women in women's sports compared to 34% of women.

In a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten 40% of women.

Feminist does not equal gender critical. There are many branches of feminism and yes women are more likely to be feminist than men, but less likely to hold gender critical views than men.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

ROFL being against trans ideologies =/= being GC. GC is feminist. You cannot be GC if you are against women's rights, because GC is a branch of feminism. Seriously, how can you people constantly base your entire worldview on an easily disprovable lie, disappear when you realise it's a lie, and STILL repeat it the next time you open your mouth? That is absolutely baffling to me.

Feminist does not equal gender critical

Radical feminism pretty much does. Feminism nowadays can mean anything from men supporting prostitution and kinky porn while actively sabotaging women's rights, to liberal feminists kissing the shoes of male trans people talking about how valid their ladybrains and makeup make them feel. All of these groups will call themselves feminists, but at some point you have to notice that fixing the actual problems and inequalities women face isn't compatible with a movement engaging in constant gaslighting and apologetics for why said problems and inequalities aren't really a problem, that they are actually "empowering" or that they even count as privileges. Nevertheless, I don't care to argue that liberals (or even conservatives) who claim they're feminists while espousing misogynistic values aren't really feminists - that's a lame attempt to divert to semantics and it doesn't actually answer the question of whether their ideologies are misogynistic.