GC & QT: What are your views?

submitted by PeakingPeachEaterdetrans GNC female skeptic 🧐 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

1) Why are you GC or QT?

I'm QT because I believe trans men are men, trans women are women and trans enbys are enbys. I am against sex segregated spaces except in sports. Bathrooms have stalls, though I think stalls shouldn't have gaps. I don't care who’s in the next stall or who I wash my hands with unless they're harassing me. I think locker rooms should also have stalls. That solves the problem for people who don't want to change in front of others. Though I think even now people should have the right to use the locker rooms of their choice. If someone is harassing you, the problem is their behavior, not the presence of the gender.

I dislike how GCs talk about trans men. The only time they (pretend to) stick up for trans men is when trans women talk over them. Otherwise they call trans men narcissists, handmaidens and insult them. A handmaiden is a cis woman/trans man who disagrees with them. It's supposed to mean you're a traitor to woman and a servant. Now just because I support the trans community as a woman doesn't mean I'm a servant and OK with sexism. They insulted Chase Strangio for not agreeing with their beliefs. One user wrote on Ovarit she is appalled there was never a class action lawsuit against doctors who perform FTM SRS, because trans men are lied to what the results will look like. It's like they expect every person AFAB to be on their side. The only forum specifically for trans men I know of is r/FTM. I searched the sub via Google. I only found 2 threads complaining trans women talk over trans men. There are 20+ threads complaining about "TERFs"/gender critical. I don't know the exact number as there are too many to count. Most trans men don't want your activism. You can stop pointing out each time trans women talk over trans men, or stop pretending to advocate for them.

Now, the term narcissist is itself overused by the general public. Actual narcissists are very charming, and they use that charm to victimize others. They have a grandiose sense of self-importance and are preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. They have a need for excessive admiration and believe they are special and important. Someone who just has an awful and selfish personality is not a narcissist. Most trans people aren't narcissists. But this is another topic.

I disagree with their views on porn. I think there are valid criticisms of mainstream porn and the porn industry, but they criticize any and all forms of porn and are critical of sexual entertainment. On the old GC sub, there was a thread criticizing J.Lo for doing a strip tease at the super bowl. They said rich, powerful women who do this are objectifying themselves and are victimizers, unlike the vast majority of strippers who are victims First of all, not all strippers/porn stars are victims. Maybe some are, and certainly those who are forced into it. For too long, women who were openly sexual/promiscuous have been called whores, sluts, told they don't respect themselves, that they didn't have a daddy to tell them they're beautiful and they don't need male attention. Men who are openly sexual/promiscuous do not experience the same value judgements. I am a feminist and believe feminism is about ending sex shaming and the idea of "respecting yourself" in regards to showing off your body/sexuality. J.Lo is a celebrity and you can criticize her, but that doesn't make your criticism feminist. Of course this does not bean men get to objectify women. Objectification is when men treat women like mere sex objects regardless of the circumstances. It does not mean any porn video you don't like.

Finally, I said this already, which gender is sharing my spaces is not a concern for me. I searched o/activism (a circle where they share petitions, fundraisers, letters and emails to politicians, encourage people to write to politicians, etc.). Most of their campaigns are about sex-segregated spaces, sports and medical transitions of minors. I rarely see them advocating on issues that affect women/people AFAB like OTC birth control, equal pay or women not being allowed to enter certain professions like garbage collecting or mechanics. Legally they can, but in the real world they are rejected. There are other issues they can advocate, like police brutality and disabled children being segregated in school. As someone who was in special ed in full time until high school (just for a mild learning disability), I was far more discriminated in my life for being disabled than for being a woman and a Jew combined. Although sexism is prevalent and widespread, being female wasn't the worst thing for me.

2) Were you ever on the opposite side? (Ex. Went from GC to QT or QT to GC?)

No.

3) How do you define "man" and "woman"?

Those who have a male and female gender identity.

4) Transwoman are...Transmen are...

Transwomen are women. Transmen are men.

5) What are your thoughts on the term "cis", "natal" and "biological"?

OK with me. I refer to myself as a cis woman.

6) Do you believe transmen can play in sports with biological men and vice-versa---can transwomen play in sports with biological women?

I don't think trans women should be allowed to play in women's sports because the average male has a physical advantage over the average female.

7) What is considered misgendering?

Failure to use someone's preferred pronouns. Calling someone a man or woman when they aren't.

8) Gender is...and sex is...

Gender is your identity in relation to sex, and includes how you identify and your pronouns. Sex is biological, and many of us have gender identities outside our biological sex. Some sex characteristics can be changed. Some can not.

9) Do you know people in real life that are QT if you're GC or that are GC if you're QT? Are they friends or family?

I and my sister are QT but my parents are I think GC even if they don't know the term. My mom thinks trans people are mentally ill and my dad misgenders trans celebrities.

10) How do people normally treat you based in your views?

We rarely discuss them.

11) Are transmedicalist GC, QT, or neither?

QT

12) What is one thing you wish the other side knew about your position?

We accept GNC people. Many of us are against gender roles, like the idea that men can't wear dresses and skirts and women can't be mechanics. We recognize people can have dysphoria and it has nothing to do with gender roles. Also, not all trans people and their supporters are white, middle class and AMAB. Many trans people aren't white. Many are disabled. Many live in 3rd world countries.

1) What is your sexual orientation?

Straight.

2) Are you a transman/transwoman or a biological man/woman?

I am a cis woman.

3) What region are you from?(North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa)

NYC.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Narcissist" is very much overused. Good call.

I'd be remiss tho if I didn't point out that "charming and aggrandizing" is to narcissism as "mania and depression" is to bipolar -- seriously incomplete.

I know the DSM descriptors, but here's how it works in Narcissistic Personality Disorder and as a feature of Borderline and Histrionic PDs -- a compulsive need for attention coupled with a lack of self-awareness. That attention can be regard, validation, support, and championing, but it can also be criticism, argumentativeness, combativeness, or punishment (if you can't capture the positives, capture the negatives). And despite their reputation as "charmers," narcissists in real life can be brutally abusive and berating.

Attention is the key word.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The word"narcissist" has different meanings in everyday usage and as a clinical term.

The general definition of narcissist is:

a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves (Oxford)

someone who has too much admiration for himself or herself (Cambridge)

an individual showing symptoms of or suffering from narcissism: such as a: an extremely self-centered person who has an exaggerated sense of self-importance; b:a person who is overly concerned with his or her physical appearance (Merriam-Webster)

1) a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish. 2)Psychoanalysis: a person who suffers from narcissism, deriving erotic gratification from admiration of their own physical or mental attributes. (dictionary.com)

The clinical definition in the DSM is an entirely different matter. Also, many people can be clinically described and diagnosed as narcissists without having full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Many people who are caught up in gender identity ideology indeed do fit the dictionary definitions of narcissists, as they are self-centered, overly self-involved, vain, selfish and excessively focused on appearance (and other superficialities).

As you say, attention-seeking is the key characteristic of narcissists.

I disagree with Genderbender's claim that a hallmark of narcissists is that they are all "very charming." Some might have this trait, but it's certainly not a defining characteristic. On the contrary, many of the gender ideologues who take to social media & the press to announce their pronouns - and/or to threaten women with cancellation & violence if we don't do as they say - come off as persons without an ounce of charm.

Since Genderbender says that narcissists "use [their] charm to victimize others," I suspect she is confusing "charming" with "manipulative." Some gender identity ideologues who are attention-seeking, overly self-involved and selfish - in other words narcissistic - do use charm to victimize others, but a far greater number victimize through other means - bullying, whining, catastrophizing, silencing, ostracism, threats of violence, actual violence, withholding affection, isolation, deprivation, authoritarianism, terrorism, theft, dehumanization, screaming & yelling, being mercurial, always moving the goalposts, using slurs, threatening suicide and self-harm... In fact, children with gender issues are often coached into making use of a number of these methods against their parents, doctors, politicians & the wider society in order to get their way. At least one user on this sub has a habit of using the suicide-threat ploy as well, saying GC beliefs kill and those who hold them are mass murderers.

One of the unfortunate aspects of the word "narcissist" as it's come to be defined today is that it misrepresents the Greek myth that gave rise to it. In the legend, the fatal flaw of the beautiful youth Narcissus was that he was unfeeling, not that he was vain. His name has the same root as narcotic, meaning to "make numb." Due to his inability to feel, Narcissus broke many hearts, but he was unmoved by - indeed, oblivious to - the suffering of those who were besotted by him. To teach Narcissus a lesson, the gods & goddesses decided to make Narcissus fall in love with a beautiful boy he could long for & look at but could never touch, get warmth from or connect with in deep, meaningful physical & sexual ways - his own self reflected in a pool of water. (The story comes from a time when most people were not familiar with their reflected images coz most people had no access to mirrors - and the few mirrors that the richest people in society had were small & made of polished metal & gave a blurry image at best. Today we assume that Narcissus knew he was looking at himself, but in the original telling he had no idea.)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well-said.

Also, many people can be clinically described and diagnosed as narcissists without having full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Absolutely. It can also appear alongside (atypical) bipolar, where the mania is expressed more as agitation or heightened irritability. It almost looks like an intertwining of heightened risk-taking and narcissism -- watch me/support me in performing these outrageous behaviors, or else!

bullying, whining, catastrophizing, silencing, ostracism, threats of violence, actual violence, withholding affection, isolation, deprivation, authoritarianism, terrorism, theft, dehumanization, screaming & yelling, being mercurial, always moving the goalposts, using slurs, threatening suicide and self-harm...

Or, as we like to call it, Tuesday.

I've been around this stuff for well over a decade now. It definitely has a certain . . . clinical bouquet about it, with a base note of social media accelerant.