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[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Narcissist" is very much overused. Good call.

I'd be remiss tho if I didn't point out that "charming and aggrandizing" is to narcissism as "mania and depression" is to bipolar -- seriously incomplete.

I know the DSM descriptors, but here's how it works in Narcissistic Personality Disorder and as a feature of Borderline and Histrionic PDs -- a compulsive need for attention coupled with a lack of self-awareness. That attention can be regard, validation, support, and championing, but it can also be criticism, argumentativeness, combativeness, or punishment (if you can't capture the positives, capture the negatives). And despite their reputation as "charmers," narcissists in real life can be brutally abusive and berating.

Attention is the key word.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The word"narcissist" has different meanings in everyday usage and as a clinical term.

The general definition of narcissist is:

a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves (Oxford)

someone who has too much admiration for himself or herself (Cambridge)

an individual showing symptoms of or suffering from narcissism: such as a: an extremely self-centered person who has an exaggerated sense of self-importance; b:a person who is overly concerned with his or her physical appearance (Merriam-Webster)

1) a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish. 2)Psychoanalysis: a person who suffers from narcissism, deriving erotic gratification from admiration of their own physical or mental attributes. (dictionary.com)

The clinical definition in the DSM is an entirely different matter. Also, many people can be clinically described and diagnosed as narcissists without having full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Many people who are caught up in gender identity ideology indeed do fit the dictionary definitions of narcissists, as they are self-centered, overly self-involved, vain, selfish and excessively focused on appearance (and other superficialities).

As you say, attention-seeking is the key characteristic of narcissists.

I disagree with Genderbender's claim that a hallmark of narcissists is that they are all "very charming." Some might have this trait, but it's certainly not a defining characteristic. On the contrary, many of the gender ideologues who take to social media & the press to announce their pronouns - and/or to threaten women with cancellation & violence if we don't do as they say - come off as persons without an ounce of charm.

Since Genderbender says that narcissists "use [their] charm to victimize others," I suspect she is confusing "charming" with "manipulative." Some gender identity ideologues who are attention-seeking, overly self-involved and selfish - in other words narcissistic - do use charm to victimize others, but a far greater number victimize through other means - bullying, whining, catastrophizing, silencing, ostracism, threats of violence, actual violence, withholding affection, isolation, deprivation, authoritarianism, terrorism, theft, dehumanization, screaming & yelling, being mercurial, always moving the goalposts, using slurs, threatening suicide and self-harm... In fact, children with gender issues are often coached into making use of a number of these methods against their parents, doctors, politicians & the wider society in order to get their way. At least one user on this sub has a habit of using the suicide-threat ploy as well, saying GC beliefs kill and those who hold them are mass murderers.

One of the unfortunate aspects of the word "narcissist" as it's come to be defined today is that it misrepresents the Greek myth that gave rise to it. In the legend, the fatal flaw of the beautiful youth Narcissus was that he was unfeeling, not that he was vain. His name has the same root as narcotic, meaning to "make numb." Due to his inability to feel, Narcissus broke many hearts, but he was unmoved by - indeed, oblivious to - the suffering of those who were besotted by him. To teach Narcissus a lesson, the gods & goddesses decided to make Narcissus fall in love with a beautiful boy he could long for & look at but could never touch, get warmth from or connect with in deep, meaningful physical & sexual ways - his own self reflected in a pool of water. (The story comes from a time when most people were not familiar with their reflected images coz most people had no access to mirrors - and the few mirrors that the richest people in society had were small & made of polished metal & gave a blurry image at best. Today we assume that Narcissus knew he was looking at himself, but in the original telling he had no idea.)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well-said.

Also, many people can be clinically described and diagnosed as narcissists without having full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Absolutely. It can also appear alongside (atypical) bipolar, where the mania is expressed more as agitation or heightened irritability. It almost looks like an intertwining of heightened risk-taking and narcissism -- watch me/support me in performing these outrageous behaviors, or else!

bullying, whining, catastrophizing, silencing, ostracism, threats of violence, actual violence, withholding affection, isolation, deprivation, authoritarianism, terrorism, theft, dehumanization, screaming & yelling, being mercurial, always moving the goalposts, using slurs, threatening suicide and self-harm...

Or, as we like to call it, Tuesday.

I've been around this stuff for well over a decade now. It definitely has a certain . . . clinical bouquet about it, with a base note of social media accelerant.