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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Can you just link the spectrum for us so we can see what you keep referring to?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I would be interested to see just how much of a female I really am, having so foolishly thought of myself as one because of being born with a uterus.

Maybe if I stop shaving my armpits or drop to 80lbs again I’ll get some sweet male privilege. Body hair and low body fat can change my sex after all

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

I find ISNA does a good job explaining it:

https://isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex/

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Wtf is that link?

with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris

The hell? How is it "in-between"?

My enlargened clitoris is just a big clitoris, it is in no way in between - it is just clitoris that is bigger than usual. That's it.

It can't ejaculate, I can't pee through it, it functions 100% as any other clitoris in any other female. The only difference is size.

or a boy may be born with a notably small penis

That is not intersex condition, by the way. And micropenis mostly showing up later in life - during puberty or later, not at birth.

Which variations of sexual anatomy count as intersex? In practice, different people have different answers to that question.

No? It is very distinct cases and it is important to know them for healthcare issues, as most conditions will have a lot of complications and some (like mine) are deadly if not being treated correctly.

Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation. To better explain this, we can liken the sex spectrum to the color spectrum

Are they are telling I am less female or what do they mean by "spectrum"? Like there "less red goess to yellow" there "less female goes male"? That is very dehumanizing and that is what was leading to IGM before. After scientists found that intersex people are ALWAYS male or female and that it is pretty easy to find out - IGM stopped in most cases, as now everyone knows that we are just same female as any other female (or same male as any other male) and that we don't need "fixing". And knowing biological sex started saving lives of people like myself - because boys and girls need different treatment and if it not received in first hours after birth - kid will either die or become heavily disabled for the rest of the life. And later in life we need different treatment and we have different complications. Other intersex conditions are most often are sex-specific and happening ONLY in females or ONLY in males.

So-called “sex” chromosomes can vary quite a bit, too.

Not very much, in 99.998% they are correctly showing sex. And genitals+chromosomes in 99.982% are showing sex correctly. So we are working with numbers like 0.002% and 0.018% of population.

But in human cultures, sex categories get simplified into male, female, and sometimes intersex, in order to simplify social interactions, express what we know and feel, and maintain order.

Wrong, it is done not for culture wise purposes or for social interractions, but for healthcare and correct treatment. And it is important - again, I'd be dead if in first few hours they would not do scanse to see if I am female or male. And this knowledge was needed not for "social purposes".

Also, are they saying that man with smaller penis is less man? Lmao.

So nature doesn’t decide where the category of “male” ends and the category of “intersex” begins, or where the category of “intersex” ends and the category of “female” begins.

So yeah, they see me as "less female". And how to become "full female"? I don't want to be lesser. And no one want - and it WHAT leads to IGM among youth, it what leads to big distress among intersex youth. THIS is VERY harmful. This site is very harmful towards intersex people, why it even have "intersex" in their name?

Some think you have to have “ambiguous genitalia” to count as intersex, even if your inside is mostly of one sex and your outside is mostly of anothe

If it is so - then only around 0.012% or so are intersex.

Some think your brain has to be exposed to an unusual mix of hormones prenatally to count as intersex

Then around 15-20% of population are intersex, mostly women with PCOS and women or men with LOAH (LOCAH).

unless your brain experienced atypical development

What does this mean? This happens almost never and this happens almost always not to intersex people, wtf.

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births

How they got this number? It is around 0.2%, a bit less by majority of studies.

If you add all their numbers, there will be even less than 0.2%

I guess it is because they included "Late onset adrenal hyperplasia (LOAH) one in 66 individuals" - which is not intersex condition and people with it are 100% typical males or females, and this condition is appearing only late in life, and just affecting slightly hormonal levels and mostly it is about adrenal glands not working properly. If LOAH is considered intersex - then PCOS should be too. Then intersex will be like 1/10 or 1/5 of population, lol.

It is VERY dangerous site to intersex youth.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't be so angry, that site is very outdated:

and stopped updating this website in 2008

Why people are still linking it - is unknown, thought.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, I see.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

Or maybe you’re just wrong

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wrong? Sorry, but I lived through this.

And if I am wrong - then how to become full female? Why am I less female? How my bigger clit is "more male" if it works 100% as clit and 0% as penis? How is it helpful to say to kids they are less female and how it will stop IGM, when it was THE reason of IGM?

And where exactly I am wrong? I am certain in everything I said - it is either lived experiense or medical fact.

I am rarely meeting so rude and unempathetic people, lol.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Classic "Sweetie, you just lived it wrong, let me endosplain you your own condition" I've seen hundred times from intersexphobes. I am so sorry for all this BS that people with DSD are living through because of this ideology.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

It isn’t more male. Maleness and femaleness don’t exist, just as races don’t exist. You just have a certain level of testosterone or melanin. Also get your facts straight, IGM was about bodily normativity not an inability to classify people correctly

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was because of inability to classify people correctly or thinking that sex is a spectrum and people can be more or less.

If "maleness and femaleness" don't exist, then what that spectrum is at all? It makes no sense then. And how we can reproduce if there no males or females and we can't say who is who? And why 40 very rare conditions which are affecting very small percentage of people matters in this question at all?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Are you...

Everybody on this post is wrong except for you? Even someone with lived experience?!

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I mean Sarah Palin has lived experience of patriarchal oppression but I don’t think I’ll be taking her opinions on feminism seriously anytime soon

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This isn’t someone’s “opinion”. They’re actually intersex. This is someone’s experience and information they have first hand, given from medical professionals and actually living with an intersex condition.

Sarah Palin’s opinions on feminism are just that-opinions.

Also- they’re not the only person saying you’re wrong. Everyone else is. So you’re basically saying that someone who has experienced living with an intersex condition and being treated (for lack of a better word) for it, and even some people who have experience in fields where this topic is relevant, as well as everyone else, even some trans people... we’re all wrong, and only you understand biology and sex?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

None of that changes it being their opinion

ISNA agrees with me so why doesn’t their lived experiences count? Also it’s hardly surprising that a TEGCF sub disagrees with my QT views

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m confused as to why you NEVER provide sources or any type of proof for the things you claim, even when we ask you to, but you insist that you’re not wrong because you can find some people who agree with you who also can’t prove their claims.

Also, a quick check on the isna site, they seem to actually agree with the other poster.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

  1. I don’t generally expect these conversations to be at all productive so I basically feel like any effort I put in will be wasted.

  2. I’m pretty sure I did link this from the ISNA site but allow me to quote the relevant section:

“ Which variations of sexual anatomy count as intersex? In practice, different people have different answers to that question. That’s not surprising, because intersex isn’t a discreet or natural category.

What does this mean? Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation. To better explain this, we can liken the sex spectrum to the color spectrum. There’s no question that in nature there are different wavelengths that translate into colors most of us see as red, blue, orange, yellow. But the decision to distinguish, say, between orange and red-orange is made only when we need it—like when we’re asking for a particular paint color. Sometimes social necessity leads us to make color distinctions that otherwise would seem incorrect or irrational, as, for instance, when we call certain people “black” or “white” when they’re not especially black or white as we would otherwise use the terms.

In the same way, nature presents us with sex anatomy spectrums. Breasts, penises, clitorises, scrotums, labia, gonads—all of these vary in size and shape and morphology. So-called “sex” chromosomes can vary quite a bit, too. But in human cultures, sex categories get simplified into male, female, and sometimes intersex, in order to simplify social interactions, express what we know and feel, and maintain order.

So nature doesn’t decide where the category of “male” ends and the category of “intersex” begins, or where the category of “intersex” ends and the category of “female” begins. Humans decide. Humans (today, typically doctors) decide how small a penis has to be, or how unusual a combination of parts has to be, before it counts as intersex. Humans decide whether a person with XXY chromosomes or XY chromosomes and androgen insensitivity will count as intersex.”

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I understand what intersex means, I’m asking for a link to the spectrum that shows everything thé full spectrum that included everyone, be they intersex, trans or not trans.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Read all the way through my guy, it describes the sex spectrum Halfway down

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Addressed this in my last two comments. It’s probably easier if we stay in one place (in the comments) from now on.