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transmed vs GC debates issues

submitted by pippiTheLongstocki from (self.GCdebatesQT)

Hello everyone. First of all, I want to say that I not support ban of GC subs in the reddit. Free speech is important for society's future. But also I found it's very difficult to debate GC beeing transmed. I was banned in the reddit subs and even in discord server several times. It was also my mistakes, like I should not do personal attacks, but I think it's minor issue. The problem is that GC is not used to know transmed position. When it described, it always shocked them. We, transmed, usually claim that transition is proper treatment for truscam transgenders, and not healing gender dysphoria leads to commit to suicide. It means, if we implement suggestions of GC, like:

  • no hormonal blockers for teens, even if gender dysphoria was proper diagnosted
  • change gender markers in the ID cards back to sex at the birth

It could lead for millions of deaths. So, we're pathetic. Nobody want to feel that it's they responsibility of massacre. GC in the best case scenario starts to suggest something what is possible works for QT, like adding in goverment-issued ID sex at the birth and leave a gender marker, but it could not work if you're truscam, and transitioned because of gender dysphoria, especially if you're stealth - you do not disclose your past. Rumors are fast, and implementing this suggestion simply destroy millions of life. So, highlighting this issue different ways, including way to compare this approach to Yellow-star on jew in Nazi state, I was banned several times. Looks like it's very difficult to share opinion, if it's so trigger GC.

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[–]censorshipment 16 insightful - 8 fun16 insightful - 7 fun17 insightful - 8 fun -  (12 children)

It could lead for millions of deaths.

"I can't get what I want, so I'm going to kill myself. Fuck tərfs!"

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

We don't need anything from you, girls, guys (like FtMs - I seen couple of FtMs who actually transitioned, but still stay in GC community), etc. Just don't interfere, and do your own business. Pls do not cross our red lines. We even can be ally against QT and sex predators like Jessica Yaniv, who is not valid transgenders, but issue of self-identify proclaimed gender - idea of QT. If you cross, you can trigger a millions of deaths, yes. Pls do not ignore this.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Do you really not see the issue with telling us not to cross your lines as you continue to cross ours?!

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (9 children)

I'm not. I personally did nothing wrong in my life. Even was not charged any fines by government. Always followed law. But was discriminated a lot of times before transition, and even a little bit as female (I'm stealth) later. I'm feminist myself (postfem and intersectionality feminist) So, I'm possible ally against toxic masculinity and a lot of patriarchy issues.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You’re absolutely not a fucking feminist. And if you’ve ever invaded a female space or lied about being a female you have done something wrong. If you’re a feminist, you’d understand why we want you to leave us, our sex, our language and our spaces alone. You’re a men’s rights activist through and through. You embody toxic masculinity and should be the poster child for the patriarchy.

Or your a troll. Idk.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

You’re absolutely not a fucking feminist.

Feminism is not only radfem, sorry

You’re a men’s rights activist through and through

No, I'm transmed activists, and I want to just live my silent female life, not more. If GC abandon their idea to destroy stealth of transgender womans, I will never return, just will live my small silent life.

Or your a troll. Idk.

No, I can proof that I'm actually transgender woman. You should publicly promise to not disclose my proofs(I'll try to make them anonymous, but I can do mistakes...) and not shared it anybody, etc.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Feminism is for females. Not mentally ill men. Sorry.

You advocating for those mentally ill men to have the right to lie on legal documents so that it’s easier for them to lie to people in their lives and for them to be able to invade female spaces makes you a men’s rights advocate.

Transgender woman= man

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

it's not how it works, sorry: it's point of view of GC. Even part of radfem not TW-exclusive. So, you can't speak about other branches of feminism.

Transgender woman= man

GC always confuse transmed with tucute/QT. Well, I'm not deny biological reality. Yes: I'm biological male with brain which was developed in womb with lack of testosterone, with artificial female body(thx hormones and surgery), and female socialization. So, finally, because I'm stealth, I was disciminated as female several times. GC usually deny this. You can say that it's my fault - I transitioned, but it's not what I choose. I choose between step in the window and transition. Like you, I never choosed to not was born as, for example, white cisgender male in the Sweden, and have rich parents - it could be nice. Istead of it, I was born as disabled person (cause of sex dysphoria), and had very long trip to solve this issues. Finally I have same issues with patriarchy as a lot of ciswomens has. I even experience right now a reproductive pressure: my mom-in-law said me recently, that safe sex is sin It's finally reasons, why other feminist branches includes TW

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Almost all feminism is centered on females, as almost all our issues are because of our biological sex and our reproductive biology. And it especially seen among poor or marginalized women or outside of rich Western countries.

Feminism which is focused on other issues is mostly "rich privileged feminism" of mostly middle/high class white women from 1st world countries, and it is mostly centered on general humanism - like "lets help everyone" or on individualism like "everyone should help herself" (ignoring that majority of womeon outside of their class have very little control over their lives and even if try - can't succeed, as they will be stopped instantly). Plus males don't really udnerstand reality of being female in weaker female body, which can get pregnant, so can't really give much input on it, they can support feminism, thought, but not really understand it or be feminists.

...I am not sure what this all have to do with topic of discussion, thought.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Lmao none of what you wrote means you’re not a man.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

only radfem do not consider me as female. And even part of radfems are not MtF exclusive, and agree that after transition we could get female socialization(yes, for radfem female socialization is trauma, but if you're MtF with gender dysphoria you simple don't have a choice), and could be considered as category which should be protected and as ally against patriarchy.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

It was a little hard to follow, but this is what stuck out to me:

“But also I found it's very difficult to debate GC beeing transmed“

I feel like transmed thinks that because they aren’t as extreme or as unreasonable as qt, that gc should see them as the “right kind” of trans and be willing to compromise with them. Women shouldn’t have to compromise on their rights, spaces, or what it means to be a woman just because you aren’t as annoying and are slightly more rational.

“The problem is that GC is not used to know transmed position.“

We (or at least I and the other gc here) know it, that doesn’t mean we agree with it.

“We, transmed, usually claim that transition is proper treatment for truscam transgenders, and not healing gender dysphoria leads to commit to suicide.”

Why don’t suicide rates drop post transition? I don’t care what adults do to their bodies, so if transition helps adults, do whatever you want. I care that trans people seem to think that those of us who aren’t trans are obligated to participate in their transition. Take all the hormones you want, get all the surgeries you want, change your name, wear what you want- just don’t demand that I call a male a woman or a female a man, and leave my rights, spaces, and sports alone. If you can’t do those things, what does it matter that you’re transmed? You’re still causing and contributing to the same issues for women that qt causes.

“no hormonal blockers for teens, even if gender dysphoria was proper diagnosted”

They aren’t adults. They can’t give consent. Someone else already addressed this, so I’ll just say I agree with them.

“change gender markers in the ID cards back to sex at the birth”

You can’t change sex. Gender is a social construct, society doesn’t see you as the sex/gender you wish you were, so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents. If you want to end up in a hospital and receive improper treatment because you chose to lie on legal documents, at this point I feel like that’s on you and idgaf, but that puts the doctors who treat you and the hospital at risk if something goes wrong- that’s unfair.

“It could lead for millions of deaths.”

So could lying on legal documents. But also- gc isn’t forcing suicide on you, nor are we murdering you or encouraging others to murder you. We are not directly or indirectly responsible for the lives (or deaths) of trans people. Various mental illnesses are rampant in the trans community, even post transition there’s a high level of suicide. And trans people aren’t getting killed anywhere near the same rate as other demographics, even taking into consideration how low the trans population is.

“ like adding in goverment-issued ID sex at the birth and leave a gender marker,”

I would never suggest this. Male is male. Female is female. Deal with it imo

“but it could not work if you're truscam, and transitioned because of gender dysphoria”

  1. Lol at the “scam” part being a typo but also accurate

  2. So it doesn’t work because of the mental illness you have that isn’t effectively being treated?

“especially if you're stealth - you do not disclose your past. Rumors are fast, and implementing this suggestion simply destroy millions of life.”

In other words “being honest with other people would ruin my life so I’d rather you agree to make it even easier for me to lie”

It’s not your past. It’s your present reality. It wouldn’t be a rumor, it would be true.

“So, highlighting this issue different ways, including way to compare this approach to Yellow-star on jew in Nazi state, I was banned several times“

Probably because you advocate for letting people lie on legal documents and not disclose information that would matter to some people (idk how hard you stealth, but if you’re not telling sexual partners you’re a rapist in my eyes), but then have the audacity to compare it to the Holocaust. I don’t understand why trans people constantly compare themselves to groups of people who have endured suffering they won’t ever come close to. It’s probably due to a lack of self awareness and narcissistic self importance.

“I was banned several times. Looks like it's very difficult to share opinion, if it's so trigger GC.“

I think perhaps it’s you that gets triggered. GC lives in the real world and wants to keep things honest and fair to females. You want us to make it easier for you to undermine our rights and for you to lie to others.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I feel like transmed thinks that because they aren’t as extreme or as unreasonable as qt

Depends I'd say.

Transmed are transsexuals?

If yes, then /u/peakingatthemoment is decently reasonable. Almost all transsexual people I know (around 5 in life and up to 10-15 in internet) are all GC themselves. I wonder how angry they would be from this thread, as it is almost opposite of what they saying.

And many of them (transsexual males) are actually carying about transmen as well, not like your regular trans activists, who only thinking about transwomen's position and applying it to all transgender people, while transmen need almost opposite treatment to transwomen.

If no - and you mean that weird subreddit what is filled with transvestites on hormones and some weird transsexuals - then yeah, they are sometimes even more bizzare than just regular anti-medicalization transgenders.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I guess I’m separating transmed from transmed people who are also gc.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

I'm QC: critic of queer theory. But gender exists, it's bio-social contract

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Okay... let’s say it’s a bio-social contract (🙄). That doesn’t mean that trans people get to decide where they fit in to it. Society decides that- not the smallest percentage of society. Most people think transwomen are men, and transmen are women. If that wasn’t the case, the discussions here wouldn’t be happening, and all the tra rhetoric wouldn’t exist because there’d be no need for it. So why is it that, despite the “bio-social contract” classifying you as a man, you think you deserve access to female spaces and to call yourself a woman? You’re breaking the contract.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

Okay... let’s say it’s a bio-social contract (🙄)

OKay

That doesn’t mean that trans people get to decide where they fit in to it.

I'm fit. My neighbors, friends, and almost everybody in my life think that I'm cis straight female. I'm even more fit than cis-lesbi-separatists which is not fit with biggest part of society. It doesn't mean that I'm against lesbi at all. I'm progressive and I support LGBT rights.

Most people think transwomen are men

Most people think that covid is not exist, or that HIV+ people are dangerous for them even if they walk around. Democracy is not about withdraw human rights of one or another minority - you can always find a new minorities. Almost everybody could be force divided from other people by one or another criteria (created by hate groups) and assigned to untermensch. Do not do this. Stop.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Did you just claim you’re more woman that lesbians?

Cut the nazi shit out. It’s insanely belittling to actual Holocaust victims.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I love how they make statements like “I support lgbt rights” or “I’m an ally for feminists against patriarchy” then proceed to make homophobic and misogynistic comment after comment. I’m really starting to think this is troll, I hope that’s the case because the idea that someone like this could really exist and is really invading our spaces regularly is kind of terrifying. That’s the thing, TW don’t have to be dangerous to make women uncomfortable, I don’t know why so many don’t understand that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Idk about troll this time. I want to but this is honestly a lot of the shit that’s thrown around genuinely by transwomen from Reddit.
I’ve lost the line between parody and the real thing.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That’s true. It was just wishful thinking on my part, I guess.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Being fit has nothing to do with it

Most people seem to understand that covid is a real thing, since we’ve been fucking quarantined for over a year

HIV myths have been debunked and general understanding of the AIDS/HIV has been readily accessible for 20 years

Eta: Also- people not knowing provable things doesn’t mean that facts aren’t still facts. I’m not going to speculate on your passability, it doesn’t matter. You can fool who you fool (if you really do, but I suspect the things you say may clue them in even if you do actually look female), it doesn’t make you a woman.

And even if the covid and hiv stuff was accurate- has nothing to do with transwomen being female or male

Transwomen aren’t minorities, but let’s pretend they are- that doesn’t make them women. It would literally mean that they aren’t. Humans are male and female, men are male, women are female, it’s a natural divide that has nothing to do with hatred, it’s about biology. Women and transwomen aren’t the same. Stop forcing yourself on us. Leave women the fuck alone. And our spaces, too.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

Why don’t suicide rates drop post transition?

It's not true. This is meta research: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

You can’t change sex. Gender is a social construct, society doesn’t see you as the sex/gender you wish you were, so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents.

Gender is bio-social constract, we can have additional discussion about this topic

so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents

"you have no justification to lying on legal documents, everybody should to know, that you're jew". And having female look and male sex in the ID, it's like beeing clown and freak. Like not other people. You force split us into another group, like jew was forced to splitted to another group in the nazi state. Don't do this. I don't ask to move you into ghetto, why you want to do it with me? Are you really believe, that it make you life better?

It’s not your past. It’s your present reality. It wouldn’t be a rumor, it would be true.

What are you talking about? I integrated in the society as female. And nobody knows. Why do you want to destroy my life? What is it? Lack of empathy? Or maybe you're just hate group - what are you trying to deny?

think perhaps it’s you that gets triggered.

No, GC was triggered. Nobody wants to feel triggered massacre. 3rd Reich citizens didn't know - mostly - about gas cameras. So, you're trying to ignore fact what happen with us if you enforce what you want ignoring our lifes and vital interests

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Gender is bio-social constract, we can have additional discussion about this topic

Why it is more important than sex, then?

As here was said many times: in sports, statistics, healthcare - biological sex matters. In the rest of situations neither sex nor gender should matter at all, otherwise it is called sexism.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Do proper tests in sport. I don't understand why valid trangender with dysphoria could go to the, for example, Arm wrestling. It's not about my rights. I don't care about sport at all. Just want to live my own life and not feel fear that GC destroy it and kill me

healthcare

It's my business and my risks. Do not interfere here. If you speak about teens with proper diagnosted gender dysphoria on hormonal blockers - okay, don't change them birth certificate until 18. Reasonable for them to get proper treatment. If somebody wants, he/she could be able to show for medical records sex, assigned at the birth. Otherwise, let people be stealth

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

How exactly GC will destroy and kill you? By protecting girl's rights for fair competition in arm-wrestling? Caitlyn Jenner is transsexual, yet won male decathlon on Olympic games and was heavily ahead the best ever females in decathlon. How is it fair to put Caitlyn into women's category? How not putting Caitlyn into women's category is killing you or anyone else? And again - there zero females (natal women or transmen) who murdered grown up transwoman in last decade (maybe two), all murders of transwomen were done by natal men or other transwomen. How exactly protecting women's rights is "killing you"? And if us having rights is "killing you", does not this means that you are infringing our rights and removing them from us? We just recently got rights to vote and own a property - 30-50 years, depends on country. And outside of the West in many countries we still don't have such rights, why we need to give them up? And how giving them up will "save" you?

It's my business and my risks

So you want to be written as "female" and receive incorrect treatment? Or you want "female researches" to start researching prostate cancer? Women's health already heavily underresearched, why you want a lot of women and transwomen to die due to mistreatment?

assigned at birth

Again you are appropriating termins. Previously you took the phrase that is very triggering to homosexual people, and now you are doing same with intersex people. Assigning sex at birth is a mistreatment, it was leading to IGM and butchery of bodies of people born with DSD. Sex is observed long before the birth. I don't know, you can use something neutral like "sex at birth", or something, and not use struggles and horrors of other not-related to you groups.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

So you want to be written as "female" and receive incorrect treatment?

Exactly, it's my life and my risks. It's not your business

why you want a lot of women and transwomen to die due to mistreatment?

I'm ok if transwoman, if wants, indicate that she is not cis. Just let us decide

How is it fair to put Caitlyn into women's category?

It's not fair at all. Do not let trans woman play in sport. I don't care about it. It's Queer Theory and SJW shit, not related to my female fake life at all. Transmed accept bilogical reality: I'm biological male with partly female brain, female socialization, with artificial female body. I should not play in the woman sport, it could be unfair

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Exactly, it's my life and my risks. It's not your business

You not answered the second part of it. Why should we consider your biology as female biology and harm already underfunded and underresearched women's healthcare?

And if you don't want it - then what the problem? GC are not opposing that in majority of cases. Or, well, now with TRA/SJW pushing boundaries - many people are radicalizing to be anti trans, and because most people don't see difference between Self-ID and transsexuals - you will get hurt too by them. You should be GC ally instead, lol. And tell people that you don't want to enforce them into your beliefs and that you just want to silently live your lives. There are a lot of transsexual GC people, like even mod here is one. You should not be silent against stuff that directly hurts you. You don't want to be outed, I suppose?

It's not fair at all. Do not let trans woman play in sport. I don't care about it. It's Queer Theory and SJW shit, not related to my female fake life at all.

But it is what GC are opposing against. If you don't care about most stuff that GC are opposing against - then...why are you in fear? Why are you thinking GC will hurt you? You are saying yourself.

I'm biological male with partly female brain, female socialization, with artificial female body

"Female" and "male" brain is complete BS, thought. Unless you mean that all gnc men and gay men are having female brains too, lol.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

"Female" and "male" brain is complete BS, thought. Unless you mean that all gnc men and gay men are having female brains too, lol.

We can discuss it in the another topic if you're not against. I want to focus in the another topic

But it is what GC are opposing against.

I don't care about it. You can do this. We can even trade, and than transmed supports you here

Why are you thinking GC will hurt you? You are saying yourself.

  1. You're going to destroy my life if get political power - you don't care about stealth transgenders, and going to convert us into freaks, clowns, like jew with David's star in the Nazi state. I have female socialization and nobody knows, if you force change gender marker in my id, and/or add here a sex, assigned at the birth, it destroys my life as well
  2. my personal life could be much easy if I receive hormonal blockers when I was teen and if I got protection against conservative parents and reparation therapy

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't care about it. You can do this. We can even trade, and than transmed supports you here

You're going to destroy my life if get political power - you don't care about stealth transgenders, and going to convert us into freaks, clowns, like jew with David's star in the Nazi state.

You are making zero sense.

We here put you most GC complaints, and you just dismissed them with either "I agree" or "I don't care". So if most GC positions are not even touching you - then what the hell do you even mean there? Like, you literally almost GC yourself with your positions on most issues. So it all makes no sense.

And you do realize that GC are pro-GNC, right? So it should be even easier "to go stealth" when everyone looks not stereotypically, unlike when TRA are in power and saying that you must look very strictly stereotypically, so many can't pass or "go stealth" because of that.

You still not named WHAT will happen that will hurt you, lol. And, it looks like, you just can't - as there nothing, really.

my personal life could be much easy if I receive hormonal blockers when I was teen and if I got protection against conservative parents and reparation therapy

My personal life could be complete hell if such therapy was done in my youth. And I know few lesbians who's life became complete hell because of this, affirmation model made them believe they are trans, so they detransitioned years after and have broken body and really suffering. It is "trans the gay away" in many cases. This is double edged sword. And there lesbian who transitioned and had years of therapy, who saying it is too late to detransition, like Scott Newgant, and so they are trying to live as they can.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The narcissism... What about women’s lives? What about women who would rather die than share a rape shelter with a male? What about women’s health being distorted and skewed because men demand the doctor test their lack of cervix for cancer? What about the research on women’s specific symptoms in events like a heart attack being skewed by men who think they should e counted in the woman’s stats?

If you kill yourself we’re guilty of a massacre and basically nazis but you’re free to ignore how your wants hurt women’s needs?

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

The narcissism...

What do make you think this way?

What about women’s lives?

I support it

What about women who would rather die than share a rape shelter with a male?

Could you pls share amount of cis-womans who was killed(or, at least, raped) in the shelter by transgender woman who was properly diagnosted having gender dysphoria, not self-proclaimed gender and other QT shit, like Jessica Yaniv, which real transwoman and transmed never supported: https://youtu.be/viObi3_K5P0 ? Also, do you understand, that lesbi couples reports a lot of sexual abuse, as well as woman prisons?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

  1. Where does it get into suicide rates? Can you copy and paste it because that’s a lot to read and it kind of sounds like bullshit

  2. Gender is a social construct. Meaning society reinforces it. Society as a whole don’t see transwomen as women or transmen as men. Even if they did, transwomen aren’t women and transmen aren’t men. If you are a male who has legal documents stating you are female, you have lied on those legal documents. It’s that simple. If transwomen were female, they wouldn’t be transwomen.

  3. I don’t “force split you” into other groups. YOU ARE NOT A PART OF MY GROUP. You force entry into groups that you don’t belong in. You force entry into spaces you don’t belong in. Stop blaming women for being women and not wanting to share spaces or even their very sex/gender with their oppressors. And stop comparing yourself to Holocaust victims. You are not a female. You are not a woman. You are not the victim, the women and girls whose spaces, rights, and language you colonize are the victims. Fucking stop.

  4. You are not a woman. You are not a female. What is so hard to understand? Why should women be okay with making it easier for males to LARP as us? You clearly don’t seem to understand the concept of females wanting their own spaces or having boundaries, and that’s exactly one of the reasons why we don’t want you in our spaces pretending to be us.

  5. Nobody is sending you to a gas chamber. This comparison is so fucking disgusting. You are the one ignoring facts. I don’t have to care about your interests or your life, I’m not invading your space. I’m not lying about my sex, I’m not actively deceiving people, I’m not stripping away the rights and safety of 50% of the population then blaming them for my struggles while I shit on their rights. You are the one doing those things. The fact that you have the nerve to compare yourself to Holocaust victims as you do all of those things is fucking sick.

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Where does it get into suicide rates? Can you copy and paste it because that’s a lot to read and it kind of sounds like bullshit

It's literally the second study linked. https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/MHRJ-05-2014-0015/full/html

We are not directly or indirectly responsible for the lives (or deaths) of trans people. -(from your prior post)

Radfems advocating for the inability to access medical care (in some cases trying to block it until 25) makes them responsible. I don't care about how you FEEL it makes you heroes for increasing suicide rates, it objectively increases them.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I didn’t say shit about someone being 25. I said they should be adults. And nobody is responsible for suicide other than the person committing it.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

P. You force entry into groups that you don’t belong in.

It's non-inclusive logic, which was applied to jew in the nazi state

Nobody is sending you to a gas chamber.

You're just going to kills us all triggering millions of suicides and don't worry about it at all

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don’t compare yourself to Holocaust victims or women saying no to you with nazis. That’s a disgusting sentiment that trivialises the torture and genocide of millions.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Stop. Comparing. Yourself. To Holocaust victims.

It’s not bad that it’s “non inclusive.” It’s a female space. It’s a sex based space. It’s meant for females. It’s very nature is “non inclusive” for a reason.

I’m not killing you. I’m not forcing you to commit suicide. And I’m not telling others to murder you. You’re not a victim, you’re just not a woman and women don’t have to pretend that you are or sacrifice their spaces for you.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Stop. Comparing. Yourself. To Holocaust victims.

Sorry, I will not stop. I understand, it triggers GC as well. Nobody want to be reason of Massacre. But it's main point of my thread: you're just avoiding this true, and ban when I explain why it comparable. It's just happened in the discord server - this censorship. It's exactly idea of this thread. Discuss it, do not censor it.

I’m not forcing you to commit suicide

Well, you actually are. You're going to destroy my stealth and life.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You’re fucking insane and I’m done. The level of narcissism you must possess to think that it is justified to equate yourself to Holocaust victims is just not something I have the energy to deal with. It’s fucking disgusting. It’s not comparable at all, and it’s a slap in the face to those victims and their families to pretend it is.

If fighting for my rights, safety, and sex not to be destroyed by narcissistic, unstable, mentally ill misogynistic men (you) leads those men to suicide then 1. They obviously had other issues going on, 2. Oh fucking well. It would still be your choice to kill yourself, and you’d have had no assistance for encouragement from me. It would still be 100% your choice. You can’t hold the threat of suicide over people’s heads as ammunition to guilt us into sacrificing our needs and our sex based rights for you. If you feel you have to kill yourself because females deserve and have and will fight for our rights then you have much deeper problems than dealing with feminists. Emotional blackmail, guilt trips, and projection don’t work on me.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Like- imagine killing yourself because females have rights that you aren’t allowed to undermine. That’s ridiculous.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One man wanted me to date him or to sleep with him, even thought he knew I am lesbian, and when I was saying "no" - he was threatening me with suicide. It is very coercive controlling behaviour. It is basically terrorism "Do what I say or X will die", just in this case "X" is the person themselves.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s just infuriating to me that this person is trying to equate committing suicide because females don’t want to hand over their rights to TW to the Holocaust. Suicide is self inflicted. Yes I understand that circumstances in someone’s life can lead to suicidal ideation, but to try to say that women having rights that tw aren’t allowed to disrupt is comparable to gas chambers is fucking sick. I’m sure that some Holocaust victims did commit suicide (because of the atrocities they endured and the loved ones they watched suffer and die), but the vast majority of them were murdered, starved, experimented on (against their will, unlike trans people who voluntarily let people experiment on them), abused. And here this poster is, acting like TW have anything in common with people who were snatched out of their homes, forced into ghettos and concentration camps and brutalized. The Jewish people (he keeps saying Jews, though I know there were other Holocaust victims) who suffered and died throughout the Holocaust were killed because of what they are, he’s talking about killing him self because we won’t pretend he’s something he’s not. The narcissism and lack of self awareness knows no bounds.

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abuser logic. eta - I meant pippi's logic was abuser logic, not you.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

A massacre? Really.

Women don’t say what I want so I’ll suicide and it’s all the fault of gc women.

If I ever neck myself I want you charged with first degree homicide because you said something I didn’t like about the Holocaust. That’s fair and sensible.

Pathetic is right but we aren’t responsible for any deaths, let alone an imaginary massacre. Pathetic is right.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m still not getting how suicide = massacre

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abuser logic. My actions are the fault of the people who don’t give me what I demand. Look at what you made me do.

The Holocaust comparisons are sickening. People tortured, murdered, humiliated, dehumanised, robbed, raped, and god knows what else..and some navel gazing man with all the rights thinks his choice to suicide is comparable?! The audacity and narcissism are at levels previously unheard of.

[–]emptiedriver 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

It means, if we implement suggestions of GC, like: * no hormonal blockers for teens, even if gender dysphoria was proper diagnosted

How can you be sure you "properly diagnose" dysphoria when someone is still developing? There are so many stages people go through and at this point we barely know what the long term consequences of the medical options are going to be, so waiting until someone is 18 is not radical. It's just allowing time to pursue therapeutic, self-affirming, body-positive approaches before turning to serious, lifelong biological alterations. It seems better to allow healthy natural changes to happen and provide psychological support than to support psychological discordance by damaging the body. Or at very least, to try that until the person has fully matured and can take responsibility for the consequences.

  • change gender markers in the ID cards back to sex at the birth

What about noting FtM or MtF? It seems important in emergencies for doctors to know what the sex of someone is, for example, and lying on historical documents is just strange. I understand wishing for things to be different, but part of mental health is accepting reality.

It could lead for millions of deaths. So, we're pathetic. Nobody want to feel that it's they responsibility of massacre.

It is not a massacre, and no one is responsible for someone else's self harm. Everyone agrees that it's important to help people who suffer from suicidal ideation to work toward a more stable and healthy state of mind, but that does not mean caving to their every demand. In fact it often means helping them see why those kinds of dramatic ultimatums are not consistent with a realistic and satisfying way of living.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (18 children)

so waiting until someone is 18 is not radical.

Than, later to achieve pass you often need dangerous and very expansive surgery like FFS. It make things really more worse.

How can you be sure you "properly diagnose" dysphoria when someone is still developing?

When transition was gatekeeped, it was about 1% of detrans cases or even less. Compare it about 45% of suicide rate attempts. I think, using modern technologies, if proper gatekeeping, we can drop detrans cases to 0.5% or even less. Right now we see a lot of detrans cases because of QT and their "self-claim gender" concept won. But it's not transmed/truscam issue

It seems important in emergencies

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life. It's not GC expirience, it's our expirience. Beeing stealth is human rights

I understand wishing for things

Sorry, but looks like you're not

It is not a massacre, and no one is responsible for someone else's self harm

Yeah. It's is exactly GC position. When I tried to explain why GC is wrong, and it is exactly massacre, I usually got a ban. Does this space free speech enough to do this? Could mods pls confirm this?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Why are you still using that suicide statistics of poll of 27 transgender people where 13 answered that either attempted or thought of attempting? Such small sample size just makes no sense. Better use other polls or statistics, which is showing around same suicide attemts rate (and mostly it is transmen, not transwomen) as withing lesbian and gay community - around 17-22% among gay men and transwomen and around 25-33% among lesbians and transmen. As with other suicides - males (gay men and transwomen) are succeeding more often that females (lesbians and transmen), even thought females are making almost double the attempts.

And it is lies about 1% detrans people, there much more detransitioneers appearing now, when medicalization of kids started being so unselective. Previously only very few kids were put on blockers and cross-sex hormones, like there were only 4910 transsexuals in UK in around 10 years, while now in just 3-5 years there around 500-600 thousands transgender people, mostly youth, especially females.

By Tavistock data up to 70-90% girls and 50-80% boys are desisting if not medicalized, and if medicalized - only around 5-10%, and even ones who regret it - often saying it is too late to go back.

A lot of gay people have dysphoria or body dysmorphia early in life. I had it up to like 25 years old, mostly because of extremely homophobic surroundings and physical harm to me done by them. I'm pretty sure if I was born 20 years later I'd transed and now would be sitting here regreting.

And by Tavistocks own data - at least 50-66% of girls who went on blockers and testosterone hgad reasoning "I am loving other girls, I must be a boy then".

Kids are too young to understand what they are signing for.

And do not forget, that transmen can transition later in life, and it is even better to transition later in life for them, as then they will pass better and will have much less health issues than if they transition early.

Why your advocacy completely ignoring transmen and focuses only on people born male?

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls.

Yet, you are deciding for others and laws which are made are deciding for others. Women are not even given a right of voice or concern.

Do not interfere in our life.

But the problem is that YOU interfere with our lives, it is not we who are asking to change everyone's language, everyone's way of life and how everyone is interracting with you.

Beeing stealth is human rights

But the movement is opposite of being stealth.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

Why are you still using that suicide statistics of poll of 27 transgender people where 13 answered that either attempted or thought of attempting?

Look in this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26032733/

As with other suicides - males (gay men and transwomen) are succeeding more often that females

because if you can't achieve pass, your gender dysphoria not go out. So, for MtF is more difficult to achieve pass, especially without hormonal blockers in teen age

And it is lies about 1% detrans people, there much more detransitioneers appearing now

It's what exactly I said: it's issue which was triggered by queer theorists with they ideas to cancel gatekeeping and ability to self-proclaim youself as female, male, or female helicopter (sic), and no dysphoria requires to be a valid transgender.

A lot of gay people have dysphoria or body dysmorphia early in life

I had small dysphoria since I was 6 years old, and very strong after my ~11, which caused 1.5 suicide attempts (the first one was not really real, I had intention to worry my parents. But I understood that I could die, and it was also possible solution for me in that time). I transitioned at first time in 17, but later was force detransed by parrents, also they forced in me conversion therapy. I can't describe how bad it was. I have PTSR after it finally (also after bulling in school and after rape attempt after transition) - very painful flashbacks. So, conversion therapy did nothing with my dysphoria, it was much worse when forced detransed. Later I escaped, and make transition again, and finally I didn't have dysphoria, I live in the steath, my employer, husband's parrents, his friends, etc don't know about my transstatus, and I'm happy (of course, I have problems, but... Not life/death question which I had before)

And by Tavistocks own data - at least 50-66% of girls who went on blockers and testosterone hgad reasoning "I am loving other girls, I must be a boy then".

This is all issues of not proper gatekeeping, which we had in the past. Personally me - I had 2 years test by real life before I got my F64.0, and a lot of visits to the clinic for tests, etc.

But the problem is that YOU interfere with our lives,

I'm not. There are no proofs that sex predators really exists in not self-proclaimed "womans" - what is Queer theory issue. Not an issue of valid transgender girls. Also don't forget that it was a lot of issues reported, like violation, etc in the lesbi couples, as well as in the woman prisons. But nobody consider an idea to not let lesbi go into woman spaces.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

look in this

11.2 % attempted suicide

Oh, it is even lower in Canada than in USA. And boviously that less hatred surrounding person will improve situation. Not sure what exactly it has to do with double mastectomy on 13 years old girls, thought.

and no dysphoria requires to be a valid transgender.

And how exactly it is a good thing? It is anti-gnc, hurts transsexual people, hurt lesbians and gays, hurt women's rights. And it does not help actual transsexual or dysphoric people who are in distress. I see only minuses in this.

conversion therapy

Can you not appropriate LGB termins? Especially considering that forced transing is very common anti-gay conversion therapy. And I know personally few people who lived through it and still hugely regreting it - but there no way back, they were forced through surgery and hormonal therapies.

And not sure what your case here have to do with homosexual kids. People were telling me that lesbianism do not exist, I married a man in tries to "cure" myself, sexologist just told that I am frigid because I can't get aroused by males at all (including transwomen), I was beaten for being lesbian, I was fired from a job when director saw me dating a woman, I tried for years to "pass a man" in hopes that it will stop hate. And in early childhood I only saw hetero couples as well, so I was thinking whole my childhood that something is wrong with me, I was so strongly leaning to girls, but I knew that only boys were liking girls and that girl can't be with girl - it is dangerous and people hate it. I hated myself so much for not being a boy. And I know a lot of lesbians and especially gay boys with similar periods in their lives. Telling them that "just transition to straight" is a conversion therapy and very harmful. None of us are trans, none of us is actully dysphoric. Yet you are proposing to transition all of us because of our internalized homophobia and our wish to be "normal". We should instead promote being GNC, promote homosexual relationship, show kids and youth that it is normal to be a man in dress or to be butch lesbian, that it is fine to love and live with person of same sex as you. And not "yeah, you are really a boy, go transition. Don't be GNC - transition too!" as you proposing. Your "solution" will only increase amount of kids in distress, GNC-kids and homosexual kids would be expecially susseptive and especially stressed.

We should clearly find how to separate the minority of people in distress because "they are trans" from majority of just gnc or homosexual people. USA statistics showed that amount of lesbians decreased but amount of transmen rapidly raised. It tells a lot, at least to me. And again, you are completely ignoring transmen, who need almost opposite treatment than transwomen.

There are no proofs that sex predators really exists in not self-proclaimed "womans" - what is Queer theory issue.

There a lot of proofs. And with "Self-ID" - any man can do this, they don't need to be trans, just declare and go, at any moment, no effort needed.

Not an issue of valid transgender girls.

It is. You are being silent while in your name all this BS is happening. In your name's hundred of women and kids are hurt, and non-trans predators attacking women and men are doing that in your name, calling themselves as you. Why are you silent about those issues? You should be the first to cry about this, that "IT IS NOT WE!" and clearly separate the line between you and them. It is not GC who should be saying this, it is your problem in the first place.

So many transsexuals I know are mad at this movement. Previously even those who passed not really well - were still feeling fine being unnoticed and being fine. But after this TRA movement - they are all time called either pronouns, or they are noticed as not passing well and called "you are like those 50 men who just walked in female spaces without even trying?". They just wanted to live silent, so no one was noticing them, no one giving them special attention, just silent lives and everyone doing their own stuff, and this movement robbed them from this. So they are angry and screaming about this issues on a front line. Why you aren't? Why you came to GC, who are silenced and deplatformed, and telling to us to be kind and not to hurt you? It is men who are mostly attacking transwomen, it is mostly "trans allies" and "gender movement" who are not letting you live as you are - why coming on us, other victims, who are even more powerless than you?

(girl is young human, wtf on using this word, lol)

This is all issues of not proper gatekeeping, which we had in the past. Personally me - I had 2 years test by real life before I got my F64.0, and a lot of visits to the clinic for tests, etc.

Well, Trans movement completely removing it. And GC are against this. Have you noticed that GC movement appeared not when transsexuals appeared, but when this BS started and started to strip women from our rights, spaces and started to attack LGB youth?

Queer

This word is still used as a slur in many places in the world, by the way.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Oh, it is even lower

Check it more careful

Can you not appropriate LGB termins?

LGB-split T was designed just couple of years ago. conversion therapy exists much longer as therm. It always used against gender dysphoria too.

There a lot of proofs. And with "Self-ID" - any man can do this, they don't need to be trans, just declare and go, at any moment, no effort needed.

It's what exactly I said

They just wanted to live silent, so no one was noticing them, no one giving them special attention, just silent lives and everyone doing their own stuff, and this movement robbed them from this. So they are angry and screaming about this issues on a front line. Why you aren't? Why you came to GC, who are silenced and deplatformed, and telling to us to be kind and not to hurt you? It is men who are mostly attacking transwomen, it is mostly "trans allies" and "gender movement" who are not letting you live as you are - why coming on us, other victims, who are even more powerless than you?

Yeah, it's exactly about me. I want to live my female life silent.

Why you came to GC,

I feel a fear. You can never imagine what am I really had in the life. It was hell in the Earth. And I was just prey, I did nothing wrong, I was innocent. I should not pass this shit which happened in my life. GC is hate group which going to kill me (indirrect, but it's not matter for GC) if get a political power, and you even don't care about it.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

LGB-split T was designed just couple of years ago. conversion therapy exists much longer as therm. It always used against gender dysphoria too.

Always? Like hundreds years ago? It was mostly the opposite. I lived in USSR and there was similar treatment to Iranian (except it was rarely death) - or "trans the gay away". Conversion therapy was always used only about sexuality, and LGBTQ was previously all about sexuality and never about identity - L - Lesbians, female homosexuality; G - Gays, male homosexuality; B - Bisexual people, male and female bisexuality; T - Transsexual Homosexual people, again about sexuality; Q - Questioning about their sexuality. Can you, please, use some other words to describe yourself and not appropriate horrors and struggles of unrelated to you group? Especially considering that your "lack of conversion therapy" was a conversion therapy for thousands of lesbians and gays.

Yeah, it's exactly about me. I want to live my female life silent.

Then why do you have problems with GC people? And why do you want attention and all the laws that are promoting extra attention to you and laws which are stripping agay rights from whole groups of people - like USA Equality Act is against lesbians, gays and women, same with Scottish recent Hate Bill.

It is not we who started it all. it is not we who are radicalizing society. Why are you attacking victims and not the offenders?

I feel a fear.

Fear of what? That women will not lose voting rights? That women will have rights on our own spaces?

Do you know what fear we are feeling every time Self-ID men are entering our spaces? Do you know what fear were feeling women after being raped recently and curing their wounds in Vancouver Rape Relief when trans activists were assaulting their building, chanting rape threats, breaking windows and nailing dead mice to entrance? Do you know what fear lesbians are feeling when everyone around starting screaming at us that we are bigoted for not wanting "girldick" because of our sexuality, and when those transwomen are 2 times taller than we and 10 times stronger, so we can't even outrun them? What about our fears?

And I was just prey

To GC women? Really?

I should not pass this shit which happened in my life.

Oh, and you don't even know what shit happened in my life, I wish it never happened. And all just because I was a lesbian, because I loved women, I did not even chose that - I am so wished I could like a man or even a transwoman, but it just impossible, nature decided all for me.

GC is hate group which going to kill me

Not the men who are guilty in 100% of all murders of transwomen, but a bunch of women and lesbians who just want to have equal rights with men? Really? And you haven't answered how women getting rights will kill you at all? Why all transsexuals were living before pretty fine among GC and now GC would kill you? Why half of GC people I know - are transsexuals themselves, lol?

Actually. You are Canadian, right?

Hm. Now it starting to make sense. And now I see direct victim of their propaganda, I said this will happen, lol.

You see, when group is susseptable to suicide - suicide is NEVER mentioned to them - so they will not even have idea that this can happen. While TRA are all time crying about trans suicide and introducing idea that "you must suicide if people not accepting you" and then TRA are fearmongering that GC are causing all those deaths and stuff. While in reality it is men who are murdering transwomen and it is TRA who are fearmongering transsexual youth into suicides.

And it repeated as mantra, this terrorizing mantra. No wonder you are so scared and in fear. I know one transsexual who was scared of GC too, he was from UK. He was so scared that GC are creating this toxic atmosphere and that transgender people are in big danger, but than that person checked data and found out that in UK transgender people are the safest demographics, with low suicide rate and zero murders in few years. This brought to that person calmness and improved live really well.

So lets talk about this - what exactly GC are doing what will be "going to kill you"? What in women's rights is what hurts you? What in opposing Self-ID is murdering you? What in making sport competition fair is going to murder you? What in protecting lesbians and gays is going to kill you? And how? Almost nothing in GC actions, speech and goals will hurt you or most other transitioned transsexuals at all. Try to calm down and think about things that can harm you, and lets discuss them? As most likely it is just not true. Don't eat lies and live in constant fear - this will lead you to self-harm, calm down and think about situation.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

Actually. You are Canadian, right?

Why are you trying to doxxing me? Should I feel a fear? Is it treat? Could you pls write in the DM and explain how you got this information and why are you wrote it here? (or I will consider it as real treat from you and ask moderators about protection. Not sure BTW if they could help here or if mods are going to protect anybody else, not GC), why you do investigation about me and share this here? Maybe we even discussed in discord together 1:1 or in server, but it's not a point to share what you learn from me in the public platforms like saidit. I'm working to isolate my digital ID as transgender woman from ID as just female, but I could make a mistake at once.

As far as I know, the biggest part of outings was performed by one LGBT members against other. So, we're both LGBT, and I should be really careful about you.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Could you pls write in the DM and explain how you got this information and why are you wrote it here?

You are linking Canadian researches, speaking about Canadian sutff (or at least about stuff that is mostly happening in Canada and Australia). Plus in Canada there is heavy fearmongering campaign against GC women and feminists in general, so I assumed you are.

Sorry for making you fear even more, lol. Calm down, please. You not adressed other questions in there, better lets speak about them.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

I don't believe in your answer, sorry. Maybe it's paranoia, but in my case I should be careful, and better to overestimate a treat, instead of underestimate

You are linking Canadian researches

It's not true. A linked different researches

speaking about Canadian sutff

I was not. Not here. In discord - yes.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life.

The irony.

“It's not GC expirience, it's our expirience.”

The audacity.

“Beeing stealth is human rights”

The blatant lies.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Look, we don't tell you what you have to do in your personal life. We have scientific proofs that what we do is really required and it's question of life/death. We need nothing from GC. Just don't forbid us the only possible and proofed treatment - transition. Nothing else is works. I personally had a terrible experience of conversation therapy, and yes, it never worked. Scientists tried it about 50 years or so, there are no proofs that it ever worked. No transmed tell you what you have to do. You have a lot of issues with self-proclaimed womans like Jessica Yaniv, and we, truscam/transmed even possible ally against them. I personally don't want to see people like she (I wanted to misgender, but local rules forbid this) in the bathroom around me - it scare me too. I expirienced rape attempt.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. As long as you’re an adult I don’t give a fuck what you do to your body. But that doesn’t mean you’ve actually changed sexes or genders so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents.

  2. You don’t tell us what to do? Are you sure about that? You’re not telling us to let adolescents go on hormones/blockers? To accept males lying on legal documents and claiming to be women? To sacrifice our spaces for you? You’re not doing those things? Then what’s your issue with gc?

  3. Lots of males experience rape or rape attempts. Are you gonna do anything to keep them safe or do you only care about the transwomen who experience it? And most people of either sex who experience rape or attempted rape don’t experience it in public bathrooms.

[–]emptiedriver 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

later to achieve pass you often need dangerous and very expansive surgery like FFS.

what is FFS? At this point we don't know if hormone blockers will help make "passing" better. The problem of not growing enough penile tissue to form a neo-vagina was something that came up with trying to transition young for example... But mostly we don't have data. The majority of people who have reported successfully transitioning did so after turning 18, so it doesn't seem necessary to lower the age. At very least, it seems like there should be an equal attempt to pursue other treatments when people are underage.

When transition was gatekeeped, it was about 1% of detrans cases or even less. Compare it about 45% of suicide rate attempts.

When transition was gatekeeped? Do you mean when it was not possible to get hormone therapy below the age of adulthood? When has transition been gatekeeped but allowed to teenagers?

I don't know about your statistics - you can provide links to what you're thinking of if you have them - but we have only just begun to allow these treatments to kids so the results of that are simply not yet available.

Right now we see a lot of detrans cases because of QT and their "self-claim gender" concept won.

How can someone below the age of consent be certain enough of a choice like this? Some underage people can say they don't regret taking nude photos, getting tattoos, drinking or having sex with someone older, but we still don't change the law. We make a policy of minimum age for a major life decision in order to maintain a standard and keep the more vulnerable people safe. Hormone blockers come with major risks, puberty has important growth and maturity functions, and sex alteration operations still work after a person has gone through their normal maturing process.

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life.

Doctors and hospital workers who have to deal with a patient deserve some consideration as well. It is like providing a blood type. It's just fundamentally important to assessing certain things and should be available to those who may be faced with emergency situations. It's not all about you.

Sorry, but looks like you're not

Well, what I'm "not" is a believer in trying to grant those wishes just because they're desired. People can wish for all sorts of things, but reality is a shared space. You may wish you were King of the World but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend you are. People can work to provide you with cosmetic surgeries that make you happy if that's really the best way forward, but you can't expect everyone to ignore facts like your DNA, reproductive system, body differences, history, or anything else that they notice or have to deal with in particular situations.

Yeah. It's is exactly GC position. When I tried to explain why GC is wrong, and it is exactly massacre, I usually got a ban.

I'm not in charge of that and don't think you get easily banned around here. But you have not explained why "it is exactly massacre" at all. From what I understand the suicide rate does not go down after transition. And what makes you think GC should be blamed? Perhaps trans people just often have depressive or mental health issues that need to be treated separately and they are not being looked at because they assume everything will be solved through transitioning.

On top of which, blaming an abstract group for suicide is an unfair approach. You said yourself you want to protect free speech - if you will accuse people of being murderers for having an opinion different than your own, you are certainly curtailing the open forum. Suicide is a major action and won't be caused merely by political debates occurring in your vicinity, even if they bother you. There's more to it.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

When transition was gatekeeped? Do you mean when it was not possible to get hormone therapy below the age of adulthood? When has transition been gatekeeped but allowed to teenagers?

It was always gatekeeped before QT forced their idea to self-proclaimed gender and now it's easy to change gender marker in the ID, especially for adults, even not having gender dysphoria

what is FFS?

Just google it. Tl;dr: it's surgery in the bones of face. Example: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/23/71/e9/2371e9bc1a0d0b22afa2b3ad8dec683e.jpg If you gott hormonal blockers when you was a teen, you don't need FFS. If you don't, you often need it

Well, what I'm "not" is a believer in trying to grant those wishes just because they're desired.

I think, GC mostly have by unknown reason lack of empathy and can't imagine real life of transwoman and issues which she faced, and why it happened. I think, it could be reason why you so easy suggest something what can triggers millions of deaths and don't worry about it. If you agree that it's possible, how do you think we could solve this problem? How to properly tell about this experience? Especially to be understandable for GC? I want to, but I don't know how.

From what I understand the suicide rate does not go down after transition

It's not true. This is meta research: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

[–]kwallio 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Millions of deaths? There aren't millions of trans people. Show your work, please.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

There are. About 0.5-1% of World population are truscam transgenders (transsexuals). With future medical technology, all of them will have ability to go into stealth, because about everybody could be able to passed

[–]kwallio 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

0.5-1% of World population

citation please. YOu are probably extrapolating from numbers from a western developed country and there isn't much hard data on transgenders in other countries, from other cultures. This is kinda racist, actually, since you really don't know if transgenderism is the same in other nonwhite countries.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In latest USA survey among young people - "LGBTQ+ people" were almost 12%, with gay men staying around same, lesbians dropping down in numbers, and transgenders (including non-binary, etc) and bisexual (including all those demisexualities and pansexualities) raised by almost 10 times. Most of them looks like just regular straight people, who are slightly gnc.

[–]kwallio 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

lgbtq+ is not transgender, transgender is transgender. What percentage of lgbtq is transgender? Do you even give a shit?

eta - what are the percentages in other countries? Global south? There are not MILLIONS of transgendered people.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I remember that in the past there were Jewish participants who got upset at people comparing the Holocaust to... humans understanding biology and acting accordingly. So I figured it might be worth it to post a warning that there’s a disgusting amount of that false comparison throughout the comments in this post. Idk I just wouldn’t want to read them without expecting it, so I figured I’d make a comment that anyone who may be offended by the comparison might hopefully see before coming across the comparisons in the comments.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m roma and it’s disgusting. Women are not labelling transwomen as undesirables who must be eliminated. OP is being disgusting and extremely ignorant by repeatedly claiming any resemblance to nazism because “it triggers gc”.

My dude is so privileged that they cannot comprehend any real risk not coming from themselves and still has the audacity to claim choosing suicide is a massacre.

Rwanda had a massacre. Men killing themselves because their skirts don’t fool anyone or make them women is just an emotionally abusive threat.

[–]grixitperson 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I have given pippi a 20 day vacation to come up with some other way to argue.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that treatment research expansion, as well as research into preventative medicine, is key to addressing the gender dysphoria that affects so many at different levels of severity. As it stands, it would seem that transition-related medicine is what may be the only alleviation for some people who have experienced lifelong unremitting gender dysphoria. Some, if not most people hopefully wouldn't need this degree of invasive treatment to alleviate symptoms. I'm not sure how I feel about legal changes anymore, I'm a little torn over their justification or not. How can one blend and normalize into society without ignoring biological realities, or putting psychological states of identification or being before biological fact?