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transmed vs GC debates issues

submitted by pippiTheLongstocki from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (18 children)

so waiting until someone is 18 is not radical.

Than, later to achieve pass you often need dangerous and very expansive surgery like FFS. It make things really more worse.

How can you be sure you "properly diagnose" dysphoria when someone is still developing?

When transition was gatekeeped, it was about 1% of detrans cases or even less. Compare it about 45% of suicide rate attempts. I think, using modern technologies, if proper gatekeeping, we can drop detrans cases to 0.5% or even less. Right now we see a lot of detrans cases because of QT and their "self-claim gender" concept won. But it's not transmed/truscam issue

It seems important in emergencies

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life. It's not GC expirience, it's our expirience. Beeing stealth is human rights

I understand wishing for things

Sorry, but looks like you're not

It is not a massacre, and no one is responsible for someone else's self harm

Yeah. It's is exactly GC position. When I tried to explain why GC is wrong, and it is exactly massacre, I usually got a ban. Does this space free speech enough to do this? Could mods pls confirm this?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Why are you still using that suicide statistics of poll of 27 transgender people where 13 answered that either attempted or thought of attempting? Such small sample size just makes no sense. Better use other polls or statistics, which is showing around same suicide attemts rate (and mostly it is transmen, not transwomen) as withing lesbian and gay community - around 17-22% among gay men and transwomen and around 25-33% among lesbians and transmen. As with other suicides - males (gay men and transwomen) are succeeding more often that females (lesbians and transmen), even thought females are making almost double the attempts.

And it is lies about 1% detrans people, there much more detransitioneers appearing now, when medicalization of kids started being so unselective. Previously only very few kids were put on blockers and cross-sex hormones, like there were only 4910 transsexuals in UK in around 10 years, while now in just 3-5 years there around 500-600 thousands transgender people, mostly youth, especially females.

By Tavistock data up to 70-90% girls and 50-80% boys are desisting if not medicalized, and if medicalized - only around 5-10%, and even ones who regret it - often saying it is too late to go back.

A lot of gay people have dysphoria or body dysmorphia early in life. I had it up to like 25 years old, mostly because of extremely homophobic surroundings and physical harm to me done by them. I'm pretty sure if I was born 20 years later I'd transed and now would be sitting here regreting.

And by Tavistocks own data - at least 50-66% of girls who went on blockers and testosterone hgad reasoning "I am loving other girls, I must be a boy then".

Kids are too young to understand what they are signing for.

And do not forget, that transmen can transition later in life, and it is even better to transition later in life for them, as then they will pass better and will have much less health issues than if they transition early.

Why your advocacy completely ignoring transmen and focuses only on people born male?

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls.

Yet, you are deciding for others and laws which are made are deciding for others. Women are not even given a right of voice or concern.

Do not interfere in our life.

But the problem is that YOU interfere with our lives, it is not we who are asking to change everyone's language, everyone's way of life and how everyone is interracting with you.

Beeing stealth is human rights

But the movement is opposite of being stealth.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

Why are you still using that suicide statistics of poll of 27 transgender people where 13 answered that either attempted or thought of attempting?

Look in this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26032733/

As with other suicides - males (gay men and transwomen) are succeeding more often that females

because if you can't achieve pass, your gender dysphoria not go out. So, for MtF is more difficult to achieve pass, especially without hormonal blockers in teen age

And it is lies about 1% detrans people, there much more detransitioneers appearing now

It's what exactly I said: it's issue which was triggered by queer theorists with they ideas to cancel gatekeeping and ability to self-proclaim youself as female, male, or female helicopter (sic), and no dysphoria requires to be a valid transgender.

A lot of gay people have dysphoria or body dysmorphia early in life

I had small dysphoria since I was 6 years old, and very strong after my ~11, which caused 1.5 suicide attempts (the first one was not really real, I had intention to worry my parents. But I understood that I could die, and it was also possible solution for me in that time). I transitioned at first time in 17, but later was force detransed by parrents, also they forced in me conversion therapy. I can't describe how bad it was. I have PTSR after it finally (also after bulling in school and after rape attempt after transition) - very painful flashbacks. So, conversion therapy did nothing with my dysphoria, it was much worse when forced detransed. Later I escaped, and make transition again, and finally I didn't have dysphoria, I live in the steath, my employer, husband's parrents, his friends, etc don't know about my transstatus, and I'm happy (of course, I have problems, but... Not life/death question which I had before)

And by Tavistocks own data - at least 50-66% of girls who went on blockers and testosterone hgad reasoning "I am loving other girls, I must be a boy then".

This is all issues of not proper gatekeeping, which we had in the past. Personally me - I had 2 years test by real life before I got my F64.0, and a lot of visits to the clinic for tests, etc.

But the problem is that YOU interfere with our lives,

I'm not. There are no proofs that sex predators really exists in not self-proclaimed "womans" - what is Queer theory issue. Not an issue of valid transgender girls. Also don't forget that it was a lot of issues reported, like violation, etc in the lesbi couples, as well as in the woman prisons. But nobody consider an idea to not let lesbi go into woman spaces.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

look in this

11.2 % attempted suicide

Oh, it is even lower in Canada than in USA. And boviously that less hatred surrounding person will improve situation. Not sure what exactly it has to do with double mastectomy on 13 years old girls, thought.

and no dysphoria requires to be a valid transgender.

And how exactly it is a good thing? It is anti-gnc, hurts transsexual people, hurt lesbians and gays, hurt women's rights. And it does not help actual transsexual or dysphoric people who are in distress. I see only minuses in this.

conversion therapy

Can you not appropriate LGB termins? Especially considering that forced transing is very common anti-gay conversion therapy. And I know personally few people who lived through it and still hugely regreting it - but there no way back, they were forced through surgery and hormonal therapies.

And not sure what your case here have to do with homosexual kids. People were telling me that lesbianism do not exist, I married a man in tries to "cure" myself, sexologist just told that I am frigid because I can't get aroused by males at all (including transwomen), I was beaten for being lesbian, I was fired from a job when director saw me dating a woman, I tried for years to "pass a man" in hopes that it will stop hate. And in early childhood I only saw hetero couples as well, so I was thinking whole my childhood that something is wrong with me, I was so strongly leaning to girls, but I knew that only boys were liking girls and that girl can't be with girl - it is dangerous and people hate it. I hated myself so much for not being a boy. And I know a lot of lesbians and especially gay boys with similar periods in their lives. Telling them that "just transition to straight" is a conversion therapy and very harmful. None of us are trans, none of us is actully dysphoric. Yet you are proposing to transition all of us because of our internalized homophobia and our wish to be "normal". We should instead promote being GNC, promote homosexual relationship, show kids and youth that it is normal to be a man in dress or to be butch lesbian, that it is fine to love and live with person of same sex as you. And not "yeah, you are really a boy, go transition. Don't be GNC - transition too!" as you proposing. Your "solution" will only increase amount of kids in distress, GNC-kids and homosexual kids would be expecially susseptive and especially stressed.

We should clearly find how to separate the minority of people in distress because "they are trans" from majority of just gnc or homosexual people. USA statistics showed that amount of lesbians decreased but amount of transmen rapidly raised. It tells a lot, at least to me. And again, you are completely ignoring transmen, who need almost opposite treatment than transwomen.

There are no proofs that sex predators really exists in not self-proclaimed "womans" - what is Queer theory issue.

There a lot of proofs. And with "Self-ID" - any man can do this, they don't need to be trans, just declare and go, at any moment, no effort needed.

Not an issue of valid transgender girls.

It is. You are being silent while in your name all this BS is happening. In your name's hundred of women and kids are hurt, and non-trans predators attacking women and men are doing that in your name, calling themselves as you. Why are you silent about those issues? You should be the first to cry about this, that "IT IS NOT WE!" and clearly separate the line between you and them. It is not GC who should be saying this, it is your problem in the first place.

So many transsexuals I know are mad at this movement. Previously even those who passed not really well - were still feeling fine being unnoticed and being fine. But after this TRA movement - they are all time called either pronouns, or they are noticed as not passing well and called "you are like those 50 men who just walked in female spaces without even trying?". They just wanted to live silent, so no one was noticing them, no one giving them special attention, just silent lives and everyone doing their own stuff, and this movement robbed them from this. So they are angry and screaming about this issues on a front line. Why you aren't? Why you came to GC, who are silenced and deplatformed, and telling to us to be kind and not to hurt you? It is men who are mostly attacking transwomen, it is mostly "trans allies" and "gender movement" who are not letting you live as you are - why coming on us, other victims, who are even more powerless than you?

(girl is young human, wtf on using this word, lol)

This is all issues of not proper gatekeeping, which we had in the past. Personally me - I had 2 years test by real life before I got my F64.0, and a lot of visits to the clinic for tests, etc.

Well, Trans movement completely removing it. And GC are against this. Have you noticed that GC movement appeared not when transsexuals appeared, but when this BS started and started to strip women from our rights, spaces and started to attack LGB youth?

Queer

This word is still used as a slur in many places in the world, by the way.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Oh, it is even lower

Check it more careful

Can you not appropriate LGB termins?

LGB-split T was designed just couple of years ago. conversion therapy exists much longer as therm. It always used against gender dysphoria too.

There a lot of proofs. And with "Self-ID" - any man can do this, they don't need to be trans, just declare and go, at any moment, no effort needed.

It's what exactly I said

They just wanted to live silent, so no one was noticing them, no one giving them special attention, just silent lives and everyone doing their own stuff, and this movement robbed them from this. So they are angry and screaming about this issues on a front line. Why you aren't? Why you came to GC, who are silenced and deplatformed, and telling to us to be kind and not to hurt you? It is men who are mostly attacking transwomen, it is mostly "trans allies" and "gender movement" who are not letting you live as you are - why coming on us, other victims, who are even more powerless than you?

Yeah, it's exactly about me. I want to live my female life silent.

Why you came to GC,

I feel a fear. You can never imagine what am I really had in the life. It was hell in the Earth. And I was just prey, I did nothing wrong, I was innocent. I should not pass this shit which happened in my life. GC is hate group which going to kill me (indirrect, but it's not matter for GC) if get a political power, and you even don't care about it.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

LGB-split T was designed just couple of years ago. conversion therapy exists much longer as therm. It always used against gender dysphoria too.

Always? Like hundreds years ago? It was mostly the opposite. I lived in USSR and there was similar treatment to Iranian (except it was rarely death) - or "trans the gay away". Conversion therapy was always used only about sexuality, and LGBTQ was previously all about sexuality and never about identity - L - Lesbians, female homosexuality; G - Gays, male homosexuality; B - Bisexual people, male and female bisexuality; T - Transsexual Homosexual people, again about sexuality; Q - Questioning about their sexuality. Can you, please, use some other words to describe yourself and not appropriate horrors and struggles of unrelated to you group? Especially considering that your "lack of conversion therapy" was a conversion therapy for thousands of lesbians and gays.

Yeah, it's exactly about me. I want to live my female life silent.

Then why do you have problems with GC people? And why do you want attention and all the laws that are promoting extra attention to you and laws which are stripping agay rights from whole groups of people - like USA Equality Act is against lesbians, gays and women, same with Scottish recent Hate Bill.

It is not we who started it all. it is not we who are radicalizing society. Why are you attacking victims and not the offenders?

I feel a fear.

Fear of what? That women will not lose voting rights? That women will have rights on our own spaces?

Do you know what fear we are feeling every time Self-ID men are entering our spaces? Do you know what fear were feeling women after being raped recently and curing their wounds in Vancouver Rape Relief when trans activists were assaulting their building, chanting rape threats, breaking windows and nailing dead mice to entrance? Do you know what fear lesbians are feeling when everyone around starting screaming at us that we are bigoted for not wanting "girldick" because of our sexuality, and when those transwomen are 2 times taller than we and 10 times stronger, so we can't even outrun them? What about our fears?

And I was just prey

To GC women? Really?

I should not pass this shit which happened in my life.

Oh, and you don't even know what shit happened in my life, I wish it never happened. And all just because I was a lesbian, because I loved women, I did not even chose that - I am so wished I could like a man or even a transwoman, but it just impossible, nature decided all for me.

GC is hate group which going to kill me

Not the men who are guilty in 100% of all murders of transwomen, but a bunch of women and lesbians who just want to have equal rights with men? Really? And you haven't answered how women getting rights will kill you at all? Why all transsexuals were living before pretty fine among GC and now GC would kill you? Why half of GC people I know - are transsexuals themselves, lol?

Actually. You are Canadian, right?

Hm. Now it starting to make sense. And now I see direct victim of their propaganda, I said this will happen, lol.

You see, when group is susseptable to suicide - suicide is NEVER mentioned to them - so they will not even have idea that this can happen. While TRA are all time crying about trans suicide and introducing idea that "you must suicide if people not accepting you" and then TRA are fearmongering that GC are causing all those deaths and stuff. While in reality it is men who are murdering transwomen and it is TRA who are fearmongering transsexual youth into suicides.

And it repeated as mantra, this terrorizing mantra. No wonder you are so scared and in fear. I know one transsexual who was scared of GC too, he was from UK. He was so scared that GC are creating this toxic atmosphere and that transgender people are in big danger, but than that person checked data and found out that in UK transgender people are the safest demographics, with low suicide rate and zero murders in few years. This brought to that person calmness and improved live really well.

So lets talk about this - what exactly GC are doing what will be "going to kill you"? What in women's rights is what hurts you? What in opposing Self-ID is murdering you? What in making sport competition fair is going to murder you? What in protecting lesbians and gays is going to kill you? And how? Almost nothing in GC actions, speech and goals will hurt you or most other transitioned transsexuals at all. Try to calm down and think about things that can harm you, and lets discuss them? As most likely it is just not true. Don't eat lies and live in constant fear - this will lead you to self-harm, calm down and think about situation.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

Actually. You are Canadian, right?

Why are you trying to doxxing me? Should I feel a fear? Is it treat? Could you pls write in the DM and explain how you got this information and why are you wrote it here? (or I will consider it as real treat from you and ask moderators about protection. Not sure BTW if they could help here or if mods are going to protect anybody else, not GC), why you do investigation about me and share this here? Maybe we even discussed in discord together 1:1 or in server, but it's not a point to share what you learn from me in the public platforms like saidit. I'm working to isolate my digital ID as transgender woman from ID as just female, but I could make a mistake at once.

As far as I know, the biggest part of outings was performed by one LGBT members against other. So, we're both LGBT, and I should be really careful about you.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Could you pls write in the DM and explain how you got this information and why are you wrote it here?

You are linking Canadian researches, speaking about Canadian sutff (or at least about stuff that is mostly happening in Canada and Australia). Plus in Canada there is heavy fearmongering campaign against GC women and feminists in general, so I assumed you are.

Sorry for making you fear even more, lol. Calm down, please. You not adressed other questions in there, better lets speak about them.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

I don't believe in your answer, sorry. Maybe it's paranoia, but in my case I should be careful, and better to overestimate a treat, instead of underestimate

You are linking Canadian researches

It's not true. A linked different researches

speaking about Canadian sutff

I was not. Not here. In discord - yes.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am not using discord at all.

Maybe it's paranoia

Considering that you are thinking that giving rights to women will somehow kill you - I would not be surprised. You need to calm down and think more about issues and answers, find some logic - as you are holding yourself in constant fear, which will not bring anything good.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You’re the one who’s offered some of us “proof” that you’re a transwoman. But sure, us knowing if you’re from Canada is a risk you dont want to take lol.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life.

The irony.

“It's not GC expirience, it's our expirience.”

The audacity.

“Beeing stealth is human rights”

The blatant lies.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Look, we don't tell you what you have to do in your personal life. We have scientific proofs that what we do is really required and it's question of life/death. We need nothing from GC. Just don't forbid us the only possible and proofed treatment - transition. Nothing else is works. I personally had a terrible experience of conversation therapy, and yes, it never worked. Scientists tried it about 50 years or so, there are no proofs that it ever worked. No transmed tell you what you have to do. You have a lot of issues with self-proclaimed womans like Jessica Yaniv, and we, truscam/transmed even possible ally against them. I personally don't want to see people like she (I wanted to misgender, but local rules forbid this) in the bathroom around me - it scare me too. I expirienced rape attempt.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. As long as you’re an adult I don’t give a fuck what you do to your body. But that doesn’t mean you’ve actually changed sexes or genders so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents.

  2. You don’t tell us what to do? Are you sure about that? You’re not telling us to let adolescents go on hormones/blockers? To accept males lying on legal documents and claiming to be women? To sacrifice our spaces for you? You’re not doing those things? Then what’s your issue with gc?

  3. Lots of males experience rape or rape attempts. Are you gonna do anything to keep them safe or do you only care about the transwomen who experience it? And most people of either sex who experience rape or attempted rape don’t experience it in public bathrooms.

[–]emptiedriver 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

later to achieve pass you often need dangerous and very expansive surgery like FFS.

what is FFS? At this point we don't know if hormone blockers will help make "passing" better. The problem of not growing enough penile tissue to form a neo-vagina was something that came up with trying to transition young for example... But mostly we don't have data. The majority of people who have reported successfully transitioning did so after turning 18, so it doesn't seem necessary to lower the age. At very least, it seems like there should be an equal attempt to pursue other treatments when people are underage.

When transition was gatekeeped, it was about 1% of detrans cases or even less. Compare it about 45% of suicide rate attempts.

When transition was gatekeeped? Do you mean when it was not possible to get hormone therapy below the age of adulthood? When has transition been gatekeeped but allowed to teenagers?

I don't know about your statistics - you can provide links to what you're thinking of if you have them - but we have only just begun to allow these treatments to kids so the results of that are simply not yet available.

Right now we see a lot of detrans cases because of QT and their "self-claim gender" concept won.

How can someone below the age of consent be certain enough of a choice like this? Some underage people can say they don't regret taking nude photos, getting tattoos, drinking or having sex with someone older, but we still don't change the law. We make a policy of minimum age for a major life decision in order to maintain a standard and keep the more vulnerable people safe. Hormone blockers come with major risks, puberty has important growth and maturity functions, and sex alteration operations still work after a person has gone through their normal maturing process.

Let us decide what we need and what we don't need pls. Do not interfere in our life.

Doctors and hospital workers who have to deal with a patient deserve some consideration as well. It is like providing a blood type. It's just fundamentally important to assessing certain things and should be available to those who may be faced with emergency situations. It's not all about you.

Sorry, but looks like you're not

Well, what I'm "not" is a believer in trying to grant those wishes just because they're desired. People can wish for all sorts of things, but reality is a shared space. You may wish you were King of the World but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend you are. People can work to provide you with cosmetic surgeries that make you happy if that's really the best way forward, but you can't expect everyone to ignore facts like your DNA, reproductive system, body differences, history, or anything else that they notice or have to deal with in particular situations.

Yeah. It's is exactly GC position. When I tried to explain why GC is wrong, and it is exactly massacre, I usually got a ban.

I'm not in charge of that and don't think you get easily banned around here. But you have not explained why "it is exactly massacre" at all. From what I understand the suicide rate does not go down after transition. And what makes you think GC should be blamed? Perhaps trans people just often have depressive or mental health issues that need to be treated separately and they are not being looked at because they assume everything will be solved through transitioning.

On top of which, blaming an abstract group for suicide is an unfair approach. You said yourself you want to protect free speech - if you will accuse people of being murderers for having an opinion different than your own, you are certainly curtailing the open forum. Suicide is a major action and won't be caused merely by political debates occurring in your vicinity, even if they bother you. There's more to it.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

When transition was gatekeeped? Do you mean when it was not possible to get hormone therapy below the age of adulthood? When has transition been gatekeeped but allowed to teenagers?

It was always gatekeeped before QT forced their idea to self-proclaimed gender and now it's easy to change gender marker in the ID, especially for adults, even not having gender dysphoria

what is FFS?

Just google it. Tl;dr: it's surgery in the bones of face. Example: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/23/71/e9/2371e9bc1a0d0b22afa2b3ad8dec683e.jpg If you gott hormonal blockers when you was a teen, you don't need FFS. If you don't, you often need it

Well, what I'm "not" is a believer in trying to grant those wishes just because they're desired.

I think, GC mostly have by unknown reason lack of empathy and can't imagine real life of transwoman and issues which she faced, and why it happened. I think, it could be reason why you so easy suggest something what can triggers millions of deaths and don't worry about it. If you agree that it's possible, how do you think we could solve this problem? How to properly tell about this experience? Especially to be understandable for GC? I want to, but I don't know how.

From what I understand the suicide rate does not go down after transition

It's not true. This is meta research: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/