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transmed vs GC debates issues

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

It was a little hard to follow, but this is what stuck out to me:

“But also I found it's very difficult to debate GC beeing transmed“

I feel like transmed thinks that because they aren’t as extreme or as unreasonable as qt, that gc should see them as the “right kind” of trans and be willing to compromise with them. Women shouldn’t have to compromise on their rights, spaces, or what it means to be a woman just because you aren’t as annoying and are slightly more rational.

“The problem is that GC is not used to know transmed position.“

We (or at least I and the other gc here) know it, that doesn’t mean we agree with it.

“We, transmed, usually claim that transition is proper treatment for truscam transgenders, and not healing gender dysphoria leads to commit to suicide.”

Why don’t suicide rates drop post transition? I don’t care what adults do to their bodies, so if transition helps adults, do whatever you want. I care that trans people seem to think that those of us who aren’t trans are obligated to participate in their transition. Take all the hormones you want, get all the surgeries you want, change your name, wear what you want- just don’t demand that I call a male a woman or a female a man, and leave my rights, spaces, and sports alone. If you can’t do those things, what does it matter that you’re transmed? You’re still causing and contributing to the same issues for women that qt causes.

“no hormonal blockers for teens, even if gender dysphoria was proper diagnosted”

They aren’t adults. They can’t give consent. Someone else already addressed this, so I’ll just say I agree with them.

“change gender markers in the ID cards back to sex at the birth”

You can’t change sex. Gender is a social construct, society doesn’t see you as the sex/gender you wish you were, so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents. If you want to end up in a hospital and receive improper treatment because you chose to lie on legal documents, at this point I feel like that’s on you and idgaf, but that puts the doctors who treat you and the hospital at risk if something goes wrong- that’s unfair.

“It could lead for millions of deaths.”

So could lying on legal documents. But also- gc isn’t forcing suicide on you, nor are we murdering you or encouraging others to murder you. We are not directly or indirectly responsible for the lives (or deaths) of trans people. Various mental illnesses are rampant in the trans community, even post transition there’s a high level of suicide. And trans people aren’t getting killed anywhere near the same rate as other demographics, even taking into consideration how low the trans population is.

“ like adding in goverment-issued ID sex at the birth and leave a gender marker,”

I would never suggest this. Male is male. Female is female. Deal with it imo

“but it could not work if you're truscam, and transitioned because of gender dysphoria”

  1. Lol at the “scam” part being a typo but also accurate

  2. So it doesn’t work because of the mental illness you have that isn’t effectively being treated?

“especially if you're stealth - you do not disclose your past. Rumors are fast, and implementing this suggestion simply destroy millions of life.”

In other words “being honest with other people would ruin my life so I’d rather you agree to make it even easier for me to lie”

It’s not your past. It’s your present reality. It wouldn’t be a rumor, it would be true.

“So, highlighting this issue different ways, including way to compare this approach to Yellow-star on jew in Nazi state, I was banned several times“

Probably because you advocate for letting people lie on legal documents and not disclose information that would matter to some people (idk how hard you stealth, but if you’re not telling sexual partners you’re a rapist in my eyes), but then have the audacity to compare it to the Holocaust. I don’t understand why trans people constantly compare themselves to groups of people who have endured suffering they won’t ever come close to. It’s probably due to a lack of self awareness and narcissistic self importance.

“I was banned several times. Looks like it's very difficult to share opinion, if it's so trigger GC.“

I think perhaps it’s you that gets triggered. GC lives in the real world and wants to keep things honest and fair to females. You want us to make it easier for you to undermine our rights and for you to lie to others.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I feel like transmed thinks that because they aren’t as extreme or as unreasonable as qt

Depends I'd say.

Transmed are transsexuals?

If yes, then /u/peakingatthemoment is decently reasonable. Almost all transsexual people I know (around 5 in life and up to 10-15 in internet) are all GC themselves. I wonder how angry they would be from this thread, as it is almost opposite of what they saying.

And many of them (transsexual males) are actually carying about transmen as well, not like your regular trans activists, who only thinking about transwomen's position and applying it to all transgender people, while transmen need almost opposite treatment to transwomen.

If no - and you mean that weird subreddit what is filled with transvestites on hormones and some weird transsexuals - then yeah, they are sometimes even more bizzare than just regular anti-medicalization transgenders.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I guess I’m separating transmed from transmed people who are also gc.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

I'm QC: critic of queer theory. But gender exists, it's bio-social contract

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Okay... let’s say it’s a bio-social contract (🙄). That doesn’t mean that trans people get to decide where they fit in to it. Society decides that- not the smallest percentage of society. Most people think transwomen are men, and transmen are women. If that wasn’t the case, the discussions here wouldn’t be happening, and all the tra rhetoric wouldn’t exist because there’d be no need for it. So why is it that, despite the “bio-social contract” classifying you as a man, you think you deserve access to female spaces and to call yourself a woman? You’re breaking the contract.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

Okay... let’s say it’s a bio-social contract (🙄)

OKay

That doesn’t mean that trans people get to decide where they fit in to it.

I'm fit. My neighbors, friends, and almost everybody in my life think that I'm cis straight female. I'm even more fit than cis-lesbi-separatists which is not fit with biggest part of society. It doesn't mean that I'm against lesbi at all. I'm progressive and I support LGBT rights.

Most people think transwomen are men

Most people think that covid is not exist, or that HIV+ people are dangerous for them even if they walk around. Democracy is not about withdraw human rights of one or another minority - you can always find a new minorities. Almost everybody could be force divided from other people by one or another criteria (created by hate groups) and assigned to untermensch. Do not do this. Stop.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Did you just claim you’re more woman that lesbians?

Cut the nazi shit out. It’s insanely belittling to actual Holocaust victims.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I love how they make statements like “I support lgbt rights” or “I’m an ally for feminists against patriarchy” then proceed to make homophobic and misogynistic comment after comment. I’m really starting to think this is troll, I hope that’s the case because the idea that someone like this could really exist and is really invading our spaces regularly is kind of terrifying. That’s the thing, TW don’t have to be dangerous to make women uncomfortable, I don’t know why so many don’t understand that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Idk about troll this time. I want to but this is honestly a lot of the shit that’s thrown around genuinely by transwomen from Reddit.
I’ve lost the line between parody and the real thing.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That’s true. It was just wishful thinking on my part, I guess.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Being fit has nothing to do with it

Most people seem to understand that covid is a real thing, since we’ve been fucking quarantined for over a year

HIV myths have been debunked and general understanding of the AIDS/HIV has been readily accessible for 20 years

Eta: Also- people not knowing provable things doesn’t mean that facts aren’t still facts. I’m not going to speculate on your passability, it doesn’t matter. You can fool who you fool (if you really do, but I suspect the things you say may clue them in even if you do actually look female), it doesn’t make you a woman.

And even if the covid and hiv stuff was accurate- has nothing to do with transwomen being female or male

Transwomen aren’t minorities, but let’s pretend they are- that doesn’t make them women. It would literally mean that they aren’t. Humans are male and female, men are male, women are female, it’s a natural divide that has nothing to do with hatred, it’s about biology. Women and transwomen aren’t the same. Stop forcing yourself on us. Leave women the fuck alone. And our spaces, too.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

Why don’t suicide rates drop post transition?

It's not true. This is meta research: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

You can’t change sex. Gender is a social construct, society doesn’t see you as the sex/gender you wish you were, so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents.

Gender is bio-social constract, we can have additional discussion about this topic

so there’s no justification for lying on legal documents

"you have no justification to lying on legal documents, everybody should to know, that you're jew". And having female look and male sex in the ID, it's like beeing clown and freak. Like not other people. You force split us into another group, like jew was forced to splitted to another group in the nazi state. Don't do this. I don't ask to move you into ghetto, why you want to do it with me? Are you really believe, that it make you life better?

It’s not your past. It’s your present reality. It wouldn’t be a rumor, it would be true.

What are you talking about? I integrated in the society as female. And nobody knows. Why do you want to destroy my life? What is it? Lack of empathy? Or maybe you're just hate group - what are you trying to deny?

think perhaps it’s you that gets triggered.

No, GC was triggered. Nobody wants to feel triggered massacre. 3rd Reich citizens didn't know - mostly - about gas cameras. So, you're trying to ignore fact what happen with us if you enforce what you want ignoring our lifes and vital interests

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Gender is bio-social constract, we can have additional discussion about this topic

Why it is more important than sex, then?

As here was said many times: in sports, statistics, healthcare - biological sex matters. In the rest of situations neither sex nor gender should matter at all, otherwise it is called sexism.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Do proper tests in sport. I don't understand why valid trangender with dysphoria could go to the, for example, Arm wrestling. It's not about my rights. I don't care about sport at all. Just want to live my own life and not feel fear that GC destroy it and kill me

healthcare

It's my business and my risks. Do not interfere here. If you speak about teens with proper diagnosted gender dysphoria on hormonal blockers - okay, don't change them birth certificate until 18. Reasonable for them to get proper treatment. If somebody wants, he/she could be able to show for medical records sex, assigned at the birth. Otherwise, let people be stealth

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

How exactly GC will destroy and kill you? By protecting girl's rights for fair competition in arm-wrestling? Caitlyn Jenner is transsexual, yet won male decathlon on Olympic games and was heavily ahead the best ever females in decathlon. How is it fair to put Caitlyn into women's category? How not putting Caitlyn into women's category is killing you or anyone else? And again - there zero females (natal women or transmen) who murdered grown up transwoman in last decade (maybe two), all murders of transwomen were done by natal men or other transwomen. How exactly protecting women's rights is "killing you"? And if us having rights is "killing you", does not this means that you are infringing our rights and removing them from us? We just recently got rights to vote and own a property - 30-50 years, depends on country. And outside of the West in many countries we still don't have such rights, why we need to give them up? And how giving them up will "save" you?

It's my business and my risks

So you want to be written as "female" and receive incorrect treatment? Or you want "female researches" to start researching prostate cancer? Women's health already heavily underresearched, why you want a lot of women and transwomen to die due to mistreatment?

assigned at birth

Again you are appropriating termins. Previously you took the phrase that is very triggering to homosexual people, and now you are doing same with intersex people. Assigning sex at birth is a mistreatment, it was leading to IGM and butchery of bodies of people born with DSD. Sex is observed long before the birth. I don't know, you can use something neutral like "sex at birth", or something, and not use struggles and horrors of other not-related to you groups.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

So you want to be written as "female" and receive incorrect treatment?

Exactly, it's my life and my risks. It's not your business

why you want a lot of women and transwomen to die due to mistreatment?

I'm ok if transwoman, if wants, indicate that she is not cis. Just let us decide

How is it fair to put Caitlyn into women's category?

It's not fair at all. Do not let trans woman play in sport. I don't care about it. It's Queer Theory and SJW shit, not related to my female fake life at all. Transmed accept bilogical reality: I'm biological male with partly female brain, female socialization, with artificial female body. I should not play in the woman sport, it could be unfair

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Exactly, it's my life and my risks. It's not your business

You not answered the second part of it. Why should we consider your biology as female biology and harm already underfunded and underresearched women's healthcare?

And if you don't want it - then what the problem? GC are not opposing that in majority of cases. Or, well, now with TRA/SJW pushing boundaries - many people are radicalizing to be anti trans, and because most people don't see difference between Self-ID and transsexuals - you will get hurt too by them. You should be GC ally instead, lol. And tell people that you don't want to enforce them into your beliefs and that you just want to silently live your lives. There are a lot of transsexual GC people, like even mod here is one. You should not be silent against stuff that directly hurts you. You don't want to be outed, I suppose?

It's not fair at all. Do not let trans woman play in sport. I don't care about it. It's Queer Theory and SJW shit, not related to my female fake life at all.

But it is what GC are opposing against. If you don't care about most stuff that GC are opposing against - then...why are you in fear? Why are you thinking GC will hurt you? You are saying yourself.

I'm biological male with partly female brain, female socialization, with artificial female body

"Female" and "male" brain is complete BS, thought. Unless you mean that all gnc men and gay men are having female brains too, lol.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

"Female" and "male" brain is complete BS, thought. Unless you mean that all gnc men and gay men are having female brains too, lol.

We can discuss it in the another topic if you're not against. I want to focus in the another topic

But it is what GC are opposing against.

I don't care about it. You can do this. We can even trade, and than transmed supports you here

Why are you thinking GC will hurt you? You are saying yourself.

  1. You're going to destroy my life if get political power - you don't care about stealth transgenders, and going to convert us into freaks, clowns, like jew with David's star in the Nazi state. I have female socialization and nobody knows, if you force change gender marker in my id, and/or add here a sex, assigned at the birth, it destroys my life as well
  2. my personal life could be much easy if I receive hormonal blockers when I was teen and if I got protection against conservative parents and reparation therapy

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't care about it. You can do this. We can even trade, and than transmed supports you here

You're going to destroy my life if get political power - you don't care about stealth transgenders, and going to convert us into freaks, clowns, like jew with David's star in the Nazi state.

You are making zero sense.

We here put you most GC complaints, and you just dismissed them with either "I agree" or "I don't care". So if most GC positions are not even touching you - then what the hell do you even mean there? Like, you literally almost GC yourself with your positions on most issues. So it all makes no sense.

And you do realize that GC are pro-GNC, right? So it should be even easier "to go stealth" when everyone looks not stereotypically, unlike when TRA are in power and saying that you must look very strictly stereotypically, so many can't pass or "go stealth" because of that.

You still not named WHAT will happen that will hurt you, lol. And, it looks like, you just can't - as there nothing, really.

my personal life could be much easy if I receive hormonal blockers when I was teen and if I got protection against conservative parents and reparation therapy

My personal life could be complete hell if such therapy was done in my youth. And I know few lesbians who's life became complete hell because of this, affirmation model made them believe they are trans, so they detransitioned years after and have broken body and really suffering. It is "trans the gay away" in many cases. This is double edged sword. And there lesbian who transitioned and had years of therapy, who saying it is too late to detransition, like Scott Newgant, and so they are trying to live as they can.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The narcissism... What about women’s lives? What about women who would rather die than share a rape shelter with a male? What about women’s health being distorted and skewed because men demand the doctor test their lack of cervix for cancer? What about the research on women’s specific symptoms in events like a heart attack being skewed by men who think they should e counted in the woman’s stats?

If you kill yourself we’re guilty of a massacre and basically nazis but you’re free to ignore how your wants hurt women’s needs?

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

The narcissism...

What do make you think this way?

What about women’s lives?

I support it

What about women who would rather die than share a rape shelter with a male?

Could you pls share amount of cis-womans who was killed(or, at least, raped) in the shelter by transgender woman who was properly diagnosted having gender dysphoria, not self-proclaimed gender and other QT shit, like Jessica Yaniv, which real transwoman and transmed never supported: https://youtu.be/viObi3_K5P0 ? Also, do you understand, that lesbi couples reports a lot of sexual abuse, as well as woman prisons?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

  1. Where does it get into suicide rates? Can you copy and paste it because that’s a lot to read and it kind of sounds like bullshit

  2. Gender is a social construct. Meaning society reinforces it. Society as a whole don’t see transwomen as women or transmen as men. Even if they did, transwomen aren’t women and transmen aren’t men. If you are a male who has legal documents stating you are female, you have lied on those legal documents. It’s that simple. If transwomen were female, they wouldn’t be transwomen.

  3. I don’t “force split you” into other groups. YOU ARE NOT A PART OF MY GROUP. You force entry into groups that you don’t belong in. You force entry into spaces you don’t belong in. Stop blaming women for being women and not wanting to share spaces or even their very sex/gender with their oppressors. And stop comparing yourself to Holocaust victims. You are not a female. You are not a woman. You are not the victim, the women and girls whose spaces, rights, and language you colonize are the victims. Fucking stop.

  4. You are not a woman. You are not a female. What is so hard to understand? Why should women be okay with making it easier for males to LARP as us? You clearly don’t seem to understand the concept of females wanting their own spaces or having boundaries, and that’s exactly one of the reasons why we don’t want you in our spaces pretending to be us.

  5. Nobody is sending you to a gas chamber. This comparison is so fucking disgusting. You are the one ignoring facts. I don’t have to care about your interests or your life, I’m not invading your space. I’m not lying about my sex, I’m not actively deceiving people, I’m not stripping away the rights and safety of 50% of the population then blaming them for my struggles while I shit on their rights. You are the one doing those things. The fact that you have the nerve to compare yourself to Holocaust victims as you do all of those things is fucking sick.

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Where does it get into suicide rates? Can you copy and paste it because that’s a lot to read and it kind of sounds like bullshit

It's literally the second study linked. https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/MHRJ-05-2014-0015/full/html

We are not directly or indirectly responsible for the lives (or deaths) of trans people. -(from your prior post)

Radfems advocating for the inability to access medical care (in some cases trying to block it until 25) makes them responsible. I don't care about how you FEEL it makes you heroes for increasing suicide rates, it objectively increases them.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I didn’t say shit about someone being 25. I said they should be adults. And nobody is responsible for suicide other than the person committing it.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

P. You force entry into groups that you don’t belong in.

It's non-inclusive logic, which was applied to jew in the nazi state

Nobody is sending you to a gas chamber.

You're just going to kills us all triggering millions of suicides and don't worry about it at all

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don’t compare yourself to Holocaust victims or women saying no to you with nazis. That’s a disgusting sentiment that trivialises the torture and genocide of millions.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Stop. Comparing. Yourself. To Holocaust victims.

It’s not bad that it’s “non inclusive.” It’s a female space. It’s a sex based space. It’s meant for females. It’s very nature is “non inclusive” for a reason.

I’m not killing you. I’m not forcing you to commit suicide. And I’m not telling others to murder you. You’re not a victim, you’re just not a woman and women don’t have to pretend that you are or sacrifice their spaces for you.

[–]pippiTheLongstocki[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Stop. Comparing. Yourself. To Holocaust victims.

Sorry, I will not stop. I understand, it triggers GC as well. Nobody want to be reason of Massacre. But it's main point of my thread: you're just avoiding this true, and ban when I explain why it comparable. It's just happened in the discord server - this censorship. It's exactly idea of this thread. Discuss it, do not censor it.

I’m not forcing you to commit suicide

Well, you actually are. You're going to destroy my stealth and life.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You’re fucking insane and I’m done. The level of narcissism you must possess to think that it is justified to equate yourself to Holocaust victims is just not something I have the energy to deal with. It’s fucking disgusting. It’s not comparable at all, and it’s a slap in the face to those victims and their families to pretend it is.

If fighting for my rights, safety, and sex not to be destroyed by narcissistic, unstable, mentally ill misogynistic men (you) leads those men to suicide then 1. They obviously had other issues going on, 2. Oh fucking well. It would still be your choice to kill yourself, and you’d have had no assistance for encouragement from me. It would still be 100% your choice. You can’t hold the threat of suicide over people’s heads as ammunition to guilt us into sacrificing our needs and our sex based rights for you. If you feel you have to kill yourself because females deserve and have and will fight for our rights then you have much deeper problems than dealing with feminists. Emotional blackmail, guilt trips, and projection don’t work on me.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Like- imagine killing yourself because females have rights that you aren’t allowed to undermine. That’s ridiculous.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One man wanted me to date him or to sleep with him, even thought he knew I am lesbian, and when I was saying "no" - he was threatening me with suicide. It is very coercive controlling behaviour. It is basically terrorism "Do what I say or X will die", just in this case "X" is the person themselves.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s just infuriating to me that this person is trying to equate committing suicide because females don’t want to hand over their rights to TW to the Holocaust. Suicide is self inflicted. Yes I understand that circumstances in someone’s life can lead to suicidal ideation, but to try to say that women having rights that tw aren’t allowed to disrupt is comparable to gas chambers is fucking sick. I’m sure that some Holocaust victims did commit suicide (because of the atrocities they endured and the loved ones they watched suffer and die), but the vast majority of them were murdered, starved, experimented on (against their will, unlike trans people who voluntarily let people experiment on them), abused. And here this poster is, acting like TW have anything in common with people who were snatched out of their homes, forced into ghettos and concentration camps and brutalized. The Jewish people (he keeps saying Jews, though I know there were other Holocaust victims) who suffered and died throughout the Holocaust were killed because of what they are, he’s talking about killing him self because we won’t pretend he’s something he’s not. The narcissism and lack of self awareness knows no bounds.

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abuser logic. eta - I meant pippi's logic was abuser logic, not you.