All (mainly QT): If socialization is not a large factor than what causes drastically elevated levels of violence and sociopathic behavior in human males vs. human females?

submitted by DistantGlimmer from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

Yeah, reading the shit on the old TERFIsaSlur group as one of the main things that peaked me into completely not believing that transwomen were women or that they were oppressed people.. I mean women can be vicious to other women in their own ways but there is a certain horrible way that misogynist males talk to the women they hate with very particular speech patterns and male TRAs emulate that perfectly.

You're also right that while I've had some cruel and nasty things said to me by TRAs I've never had the personal and violent threats women get from them. They have a special hatred for women who disagree with them.

They want to believe they are exactly like women just because they claim to want that but they put no work into actually fighting their male socialization. The transwomen I've talked to that do fight their male socialization are very different but they, unfortunately, seem like the minority.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I feel like actually listening to transwomen, especially the ones online, is like the thing peaks so many people.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Absolutely. I went from just not thinking TWAW to active anger and frustration.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I sort of lost my belief in gender identity (the way trans people use it) once I was actually in trans communities and realized most transwomen behaved like narcissistic straight men (and transmen like women). And that was like close to 20 years ago, before “cis” and transgender replacing transsexual. It’s only gotten worse since then. 😣

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It sure peaked me

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

So you don’t even believe we are oppressed?

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gender non-conforming people can be marginalized and discriminated against for being gender non-conforming but I don't believe transwomen are systemically oppressed as a group the way women are,, no.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you are incorrect in believing trans women are not oppressed but fair enough.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

Even if you are oppressed(I don’t think you are), oppression doesn’t give you the right to undermine another oppressed group’s rights and protections. So i don’t get why trans people bring up oppression with gc people so much. Females are also oppressed. Females don’t infringe on anyone else’s rights to obtain their needs. I actually can’t think of any other oppressed group that does.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We are just protecting our hard won rights and spaces, and ourselves in general. And for some reason protecting yourself is called bigoted nowadays.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

You honestly are going to deny trans people are even oppressed? Yeah there’s actually no point in talking then.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Why were you willing to continue to talk to the other person who said that trans people aren’t oppressed? It’s odd that you’d reject discussion with me but are willing to discuss with DG. Interesting. Considering I’ve said plenty of times exactly what DG said, that trans people are marginalized and discriminated against, but not oppressed. Is it because I pointed out that one oppressed class shouldn’t be oppressing another?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

I didn’t realize it was someone I was in multiple strands with. I don’t believe meaningful dialogue can be had with someone who can’t at least acknowledge that trans women are oppressed.

Oppression is defined (in one formulation) as the prolonged cruel or unjust exercise of power. If you can’t agree that is occurring to trans people then nothing I could even potentially say could move you to a closer middle position away from your transphobia. Not just you specifically but anyone with the belief that trans women are oppressed is refusing to acknowledge the realities of how society treats us to an extreme enough degree I don’t think dialogue can help.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So, you’re not going to address what I said about one oppressed group having no right to oppress or infringe on another... justify it how you want lol

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I’m not going to try to Have dialogue with someone Who doesn’t agree trans people are oppressed.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

😂😂😂

I love how you pretend to be taking the high road whenever you don’t know how to address something. You backed yourself into a corner about testosterone and now you won’t address this because you know I’m correct.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I could address your arguments but as I said, there’s no point trying to have productive discourse with someone who denies trans people are oppressed. Make all the emoji’s you want but that level of denial of how we are treated is a clear message you were never in good faith.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Oppression is defined (in one formulation) as the prolonged cruel or unjust exercise of power

Yes but who is doing this then with regard to transwomen? What systems of power have been set up specifically to oppress transwomen? Transmen are oppressed but this is obviously on account of them being born female not being trans-identified.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Hoteronormative hegemony for those who don’t pass and garden variety patriarchy for those who do. Laws targeting trans people specifically have been passed recently and are in the pipeline for more.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Hoteronormative hegemony for those who don’t pass a

So if heteronormativity is the problem why do you reinforce it by claiming transwomen are women rather than fighting to distigmatize transness as a separate category (something I've often said I fully support)?

garden variety patriarchy for those who do.

I'd argue that patriarchy is actually at the root of the problems that all gender-nonconforming males but face but it is disrespectful to women to imply that we are oppressed by patriarchy in the same way women are even for those who sometimes can pass as women in casual contact.

Laws targeting trans people specifically have been passed recently

Which laws specifically?. Laws denying that trans people (transwomen specifically) can change sex are not targetting trans people. They are simply recognizing the sex-based rights of women which is a good thing.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So if heteronormativity is the problem why do you reinforce it by claiming transwomen are women rather than fighting to distigmatize transness as a separate category (something I've often said I fully support)?

Because I consider myself a woman so I call myself one, separate categories can be othering and would probably do nothing to break down heteronormativity, and trans people as their proper gender doesn’t reinforce heteronormativity in light of the existence of noN feminine trans women and non masculine trans men. I prefer a third category to being called a man of course but I consider us women.

I'd argue that patriarchy is actually at the root of the problems that all gender-nonconforming males but face but it is disrespectful to women to imply that we are oppressed by patriarchy in the same way women are even for those who sometimes can pass as women in casual contact.

I didn’t say it was in the same way,obviously things like restricting access to contraceptives and such would effect you where it wouldn’t passing trans women, but it’s still patriarchy.

. The laws making it more difficult to transition are literally targeting trans women but look at the transgender military ban, the Trump order allowing discrimination in health against us, the threats by the department of education to withdraw funding to the Kansas schools if they didn’t ban trans people from their sports programs.