All (mainly QT): If socialization is not a large factor than what causes drastically elevated levels of violence and sociopathic behavior in human males vs. human females?

submitted by DistantGlimmer from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Oppression is defined (in one formulation) as the prolonged cruel or unjust exercise of power

Yes but who is doing this then with regard to transwomen? What systems of power have been set up specifically to oppress transwomen? Transmen are oppressed but this is obviously on account of them being born female not being trans-identified.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Hoteronormative hegemony for those who don’t pass and garden variety patriarchy for those who do. Laws targeting trans people specifically have been passed recently and are in the pipeline for more.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Hoteronormative hegemony for those who don’t pass a

So if heteronormativity is the problem why do you reinforce it by claiming transwomen are women rather than fighting to distigmatize transness as a separate category (something I've often said I fully support)?

garden variety patriarchy for those who do.

I'd argue that patriarchy is actually at the root of the problems that all gender-nonconforming males but face but it is disrespectful to women to imply that we are oppressed by patriarchy in the same way women are even for those who sometimes can pass as women in casual contact.

Laws targeting trans people specifically have been passed recently

Which laws specifically?. Laws denying that trans people (transwomen specifically) can change sex are not targetting trans people. They are simply recognizing the sex-based rights of women which is a good thing.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So if heteronormativity is the problem why do you reinforce it by claiming transwomen are women rather than fighting to distigmatize transness as a separate category (something I've often said I fully support)?

Because I consider myself a woman so I call myself one, separate categories can be othering and would probably do nothing to break down heteronormativity, and trans people as their proper gender doesn’t reinforce heteronormativity in light of the existence of noN feminine trans women and non masculine trans men. I prefer a third category to being called a man of course but I consider us women.

I'd argue that patriarchy is actually at the root of the problems that all gender-nonconforming males but face but it is disrespectful to women to imply that we are oppressed by patriarchy in the same way women are even for those who sometimes can pass as women in casual contact.

I didn’t say it was in the same way,obviously things like restricting access to contraceptives and such would effect you where it wouldn’t passing trans women, but it’s still patriarchy.

. The laws making it more difficult to transition are literally targeting trans women but look at the transgender military ban, the Trump order allowing discrimination in health against us, the threats by the department of education to withdraw funding to the Kansas schools if they didn’t ban trans people from their sports programs.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Because I consider myself a woman

and we are back to the question of on what basis you "consider yourself a woman" when you are biologically male.

separate categories can be othering and would probably do nothing to break down heteronormativity

Breaking down heteronormativity would be accomplished by living as a transwoman and trying to normalize that. Trying to claim you are a woman even though you are male is just accepting the boxes that heteronormativity creates. It actually does nothing to break down the system any more than a gay man claiming to be a straight woman who was attracted to men would break down heteronormativity.

Patriarchy hurts males who don't conform to it I'm not disputing that but it hurts women more and this is a crucial point to always keep in mind. I disagree with the military ban and laws making it more difficult for adults to transition.

Fair enough...I do not think children should be transitioning in any way other than socially as their brains are not fully developed and it is a major decision with huge life-altering consequences.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

A third category doesn’t break down heteronormativity either. Just look at India. The existence of the hijra hasn’t weakened their patriarchal structure. It’s just a dedicated avenue for marginalization.

But I will never under any circumstance consent to calling myself a man. It’s anathema.

Even if we did we wouldn’t be breaking down heteronormativity just making ourselves easier victims.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I never said you should call yourself a man. You are a male transwoman.

No kidding breaking down patriarchy is not going to be easy. I think that is something that trans people and GC people can actually agree on. I do think creating other ways of being for people born male outside of "man" does weaken patriarchy and heteronormativity but I guess it is more work and effort tthan simply usurping and claiming the protections and rights that women have allready fought for. Nonetheless it is what I support.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

They don’t have to be exclusive. The existence of trans women doesn’t preclude the existence of feminine men.

[–]DistantGlimmer[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I agree with you about this. That actually is my whole point in saying that trans people can be a separate category rather than being pushed into being considered men or women.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

That’s what non-binary people are though.