Does GC feminism include trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

transmen choose to think they don’t need female services like shelters. When the actual need arises they aren’t as fussy.

In that case they will go to a men's shelter, a trans shelter or a shelter for people of all genders. Many already use men's restrooms and men's locker rooms.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Where they are at more risk of harm from males. Hence the general dislike for that “solution”.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

They can still have the option to use female facilities, if needed.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

So what exactly do transmen supposedly want from us other than conversion to their belief system?

We aren’t preventing them from harming themselves and do not need to respect their gender identity to be including them in our feminism. If we treated them as men, then we would be excluding them.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

do not need to respect their gender identity to be including them in our feminism.

That's the part I disagree with.

If we treated them as men, then we would be excluding them.

I disagree.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

So back up your disagreement. I disagree is not a debate.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

1st point. If a feminist is racist, does their feminism include WOC? If a feminist is ableist, does their feminism include disabled women.

2nd point: You can include men in your feminism. Most branches of feminism include everyone.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Can you share links/evidence of racist feminists actively speaking out and saying that they think woc should be denied female rights on the basis of them being woc?

yes, there are racist “feminists” who ignore the issues that are specific to woc. Don’t know of any saying we don’t deserve to have rights.

Can you share links/evidence of ableist feminists actively speaking out in favor of disabled females being denied female rights on the basis of them being disabled?

Yes there are “ableist feminists”, I’ve never seen them say disabled females don’t deserve female rights.

Can you explain how feminism has anything to do with men’s rights? Can you explain the difference between humanists and feminists? Of human rights and female rights? Please.

Eta- any examples should be current, not from like the 60’s or some bs

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Can you share links/evidence of racist feminists actively speaking out and saying that they think woc should be denied female rights on the basis of them being woc?

Before women had the right to vote many suffragettes were fighting for white women only. But I was just giving an analogy.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh well over a hundred years ago feminism was racist so clearly it’s relevant to this discussion. 🙄 come on.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you acknowledging that this was decades ago? Was there no link or evidence relevant to today?

Were these white women not fighting for disabled women? Or was this just not a strong analogy?

Can you answer the rest of my questions? Is there a reason you ignored the rest?

Are you missing my points or are you ignoring them?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Racism has no place in feminism. Racists cannot be actual feminists.

Radical feminism has zero place for men. They need nothing from women. Most branches of feminism are absurdly male centered and accept the commodification of women’s bodies and cater to pleasing males. Radical feminism is for women. Including men makes it not radical feminism. Same as accepting gender identity.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Racism has no place in feminism. Racists cannot be actual feminists.

Truth is transphobia has no place in feminism, but that's a different debate.

Radical feminism has zero place for men.

Please keep in mind there are different branches of radical feminism. Even Andrea Dworkin was supportive of trans people.

Most branches of feminism are absurdly male centered and accept the commodification of women’s bodies and cater to pleasing males.

Just because most feminists will defend J. Lo's choice to do a strip tease and support Cardi B's choice to sing about sex however they want, doesn't make them male centered.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Trans ideology has no place in feminism because it’s inherently sexist.

Find me a radical feminist who says feminism is for males. I’ll wait.

Oh so a woman performing a sexualised dance intended to titillate male viewers isn’t catering to men? Lmao then what is? As If Literally bending over backwards in a thong and pasties isn’t for men.

Once again, what do transmen want from gc other than for us to agree with them entirely?