This post is a mess.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-11T14:52:43+00:00

I guess we're at an impasse here since I still don't get it. Take care.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-09T13:37:08+00:00

I still don't get HOW it's different. A person who has a strong preference for tiny women might fall in love and marry a tall one, which could lead to "craving" petite ladies later on; a woman who married an older man when she was in her teens or twenties might end up wondering what she missed out on. And there are countless stories of men who dump their wives of twenty years to go chasing a younger woman.

Stuff happens. It happens a lot. Betrayal sucks, but it's one of those things regardless of anyone's orientation.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-08T13:46:16+00:00

I can't speak for anyone else since I'm only me. But for me, commitment outweighs craving, same as in any long-term relationship where there can be an urge to stray. Like I kind of said in my edit, maybe the issue is less bisexuality than general personality.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-08T13:30:27+00:00

It hasn't for me. I never suddenly "switch modes" when I'm actively dating someone since I'm committed to that person. Which (again, for me) probably lends a halo effect to other people of that person's sex.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-08T13:28:07+00:00

For me, at least, it never has. It's funny: when I was actively dating a man, I found men more attractive than I normally do; when I'm dating a woman or single, I'm more attracted to women. I guess what matters most is finding someone who's attracted to YOU. (And also not a flake, a cheater, or poloyamorous.)

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-07T23:49:26+00:00

But reality is you could be 90 percent het attraction and 10 percent homo attracted and still be bi. Also there is a difference between sexual and emotional attracted, and it is possible to be sex attracted to both but only romantically attracted to one sex. Overall, when someone say they're bi, you don't really know exactly what that means.

That's pretty much the reason I think a "bisexual community" is something of a lost cause. Men, women, mostly same-sex attracted, mostly het, right in the middle, all over the map.... You can't really organize that. It's just easier to align with whatever is most personally relevant.

RaspberryTea · 2021-12-07T23:44:20+00:00

I have read that some bisexuals go through what they call bi-cycling (get it?) where they can be mostly attracted to women but then switch to being attracted mostly to men at times.

You're not wrong. Bisexual people can be strongly attracted to one sex or the other (or equally attracted to both) and then a switch gets flipped for whatever reason. Sometimes, that switch gets permanently stuck; sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, it's more resetting to a sort of default mode of whatever appeals most when you're single.

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-28T22:14:55+00:00

I don't think they do. That's why they freak out at the slightest hint that someone, somewhere might not be playing along: their entire sense of self depends on other people not poking at the illusion.

ETA: Now that I've typed that out, it looks even more horrifying than it did in my head.

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-27T22:51:12+00:00

This is a weird one because I think they're almost right. The problem is they're using three different concepts -- sexual orientation, self-chosen identity, and sexual behavior -- interchangeably. People can absolutely change their behavior and labels over time as they gain life experience and get to know themselves better. But that doesn't mean the orientation itself is different, just how it's understood and presented.

So yes, sexuality (identity and behavior) is fluid. But that doesn't mean sexual orientation is, and lumping it in with the other two things is a very bad idea.

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-14T21:53:14+00:00

LOL. Unfortunately, there seem to be enough to go around. And most of them are really loud about it.

I mean like in my acquaintance's case, I can understand not just dating ANYBODY since everyone has a type and not every woman will be it. Where it gets weird is when there's just no sign of finding other women sexually attractive beyond a bunch of declarations about being "gay" or whatever. You'd think someone so out and proud would at least casually mention one woman who could get it any time.

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-14T18:27:23+00:00

I wonder if we might be misunderstanding each other to an extent. I was thinking that if what you're looking for is someone who's not a flake and not following a fad, it doesn't take that much to figure it out. Like there's a woman I know -- a nice enough woman, an acquaintance, but not a close friend -- who is rather insistent about how bisexual she is, but she's never really expressed an attraction to any specific woman and just has a "This woman is very, very very straight" kind of energy about her. So, as a bi woman who's dated, slept with and prefers women, this is not someone I'd ever be interested in and I don't see why it would be difficult for a lesbian/gay person weed the same thing out. Or to just turn down anyone who's clearly clueless, inexperienced and/or seems too insecure in who they are, unless you're willing to take that risk.

I do understand the pressure to live as a straight person, though. That's part of the reason it took me so long to say, "Fuck it. I'm wasting my time dating dudes since I like women too much."

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-14T16:17:43+00:00

I just find comments like the preceding so tiresome because they're a big reason so many bi people "lie" about their orientation: they don't want to deal with the snide remarks and prejudice. It's especially messy for bi people who are mostly same-sex attracted and know that being honest could reduce their dating pool.

Maybe it would be better to just take people as individuals and, if you're interested in them, ask questions to feel them out? (ETA: This isn't aimed at you specifically. Just in general.)

RaspberryTea · 2021-11-14T15:29:59+00:00

And the ones who don't?

RaspberryTea · 2021-10-22T14:36:14+00:00

Bi people who act like this are frustrating to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one sex, but I'm still capable of comprehending that other people are and respecting that. And yet, I can also see where having a "gay" identity (and therefore a place to belong) becomes so important a person does all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify holding on to it, probably not even thinking of the harm this causes. Internalized biphobia is one helluva drug.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-30T15:57:25+00:00

For the record, I'd be onboard. Especially since I'm bi, but only interested in being with women now.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-30T15:52:11+00:00

I'm not the person you asked, but I think it's a couple of things. For one, bisexual attraction is extremely varied. Some are 50/50 "classic" bisexuals. Others are like a Kinsey 2 or a Kinsey 5: mostly into this or that with some exceptions. And there are countless gradations in between. It's kind of hard to organize that because each subcategory comes with its own interests and issues. So a lot of the time, this results in another issue: bi people simply labeling themselves according to their dominant attraction, i.e. gay or straight instead of bi because it makes it easier to find a place to belong.

ETA and on top of that, bisexuals can be male or female. So that's another layer of complexity.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-23T13:20:56+00:00

I'm tempted to say they're just stupid, but that's probably not the answer. It's likely narcissism, insecurity or both, especially in Current Year when every sexual orientation is being redefined as either pansexual or transphobic.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-21T00:12:52+00:00

I agree, but there's a lot of real estate between saying "Actually, I'm bi" when it's relevant and loudly proclaiming it to every single person who crosses your path.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-20T19:09:56+00:00

Dang. If this thing is the Bible, I guess that makes me a Satanist.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-20T18:33:00+00:00

It's complicated, especially for bi people who ARE strongly/mostly same-sex attracted. Like when I first came out as bi, I was "welcomed" into the community by people talking about how bisexual women were disease carriers and tainted by men even though I'd never even been with a man at that point. I also asked some people point blank if I should just ID as lesbian and they told me yes -- and I was treated better once I did. I've gained a bit more self-worth since then (and decided anyone who can't accept me for who I really am isn't worth the trouble, especially not as a potential romantic partner), but that sort of thing leaves an impression. While I see the problems it can cause, I also understand why some bi people who are strongly same-sex attracted might find it easier just to call themselves gay/lesbian to blend in.

As for the ones who are, say, already in monogamous straight marriages (and never showed a hint of being anything but straight), but can't shut up about how ~QUEER~ they are.... Well, I know it's not my fault, but I'm still very sorry and don't personally claim them. :p

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-20T18:20:11+00:00

I know how you feel. Putting aside the label itself having been just a slur until recently, it used to be specifically about same-sex attraction -- and you can't even mention that anymore without getting shouted down by TRAs and spicy straights.

RaspberryTea · 2021-08-20T14:05:50+00:00

Well, it IS a straight relationship if it's a heterosexual pairing even if the characters themselves aren't straight. I also agree it's a bit patronizing to claim a character is bisexual in interviews or whatever, but never even have them experience same-sex attraction, much less relationships, in the medium itself.

Now, being insistent that an obviously heterosexual relationship is "queer" is its own goofy issue. It always seems to come from insecure people who are desperate to be special. Unfortunately for those of us who just want to be left alone, ~QUEER~ is the latest fashion statement for this sort of thing.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-14T19:29:25+00:00

Oh, yes, I realize that now. It just took me a stupidly long time to figure it out. 😅

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-14T19:16:08+00:00

It could be for someone else, but I like women too much. Truthfully, having sex with men (even though I enjoyed it) is what made me realize I'm more attracted to the fantasy of men than I am to the real thing. Once the mystery was gone, so was most of my interest. Which... definitely didn't happen with women. So for me, anyway, it's a choice between focusing on what I actually want and chasing a mirage.

I'm not saying this to downplay your frustrations; I get it. From the other side of the window, that probably does look better, much like fewer years wasted and a definite place in the community looks pretty good from mine.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-14T18:38:42+00:00

Honestly? Without getting too much into my ridiculous personal history, I've always wished I was a lesbian so that dead-end "option" wasn't there, and I've decided to stop dating men since the odds of finding one who's truly suitable for me are close to nonexistent.

I guess you could say your option is my unwanted confusion. The grass really does look greener and all that.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-14T17:59:14+00:00

Ironically, if you're a bi woman but mostly same-sex attracted, that bit of attraction to men can cause its own unique problems. Like wasting years of your life dating men just because it's easier even though deep down, you just want to be with a woman again and can't really picture spending your life with a man.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-13T00:20:36+00:00

Same as it ever was, IMO. I came out as bi longer ago than I care to admit and even then, the "community" was filled with stupid, pointless infighting.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-12T15:56:11+00:00

...Since I feel like I just wandered into the "Woman yelling at cat" meme, imma bow out now

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-12T15:15:42+00:00

Completely agree. I posted about this a while back, but the definitions of "bisexual" found on social media (and pushed by LGBTQ+ organizations) are often completely unrelated to sexual attraction.

I got a headache just reading that. I'm also not surprised it's where things are going: a fun new way for straight people to claim a real and authentic ~QUEER~ label instead of demisexual or whatever.

That totally makes sense, and I'm sorry you felt that pressure. A couple other people have mentioned it already but it kind of sounds like a good in-between ground would be to have a) a group each for gay men and lesbians, b) bisexual groups, AND c) gay/bisexual men's group and gay/bisexual women's group.

Thanks for your empathy. I could and probably should make an entire post on this topic since it gets on my mind now and then. For starters, I think the reason some bisexual people sign on with the TQ+ is because they don't feel welcome in the rest of the community. Others "go stealth" as L or G since they're mostly same-sex attracted and want to be taken seriously/have a place to fit in, but don't feel like they would be if they identified as bi. Which, yes, can create its own problems. To an extent, it can't be helped, but I have to wonder if it needs to be THAT bad.

Yup. For lesbians it's "political lesbian" radical feminists... ugh.

LOL. To me, dating women for reasons besides being attracted to them seems like too much work.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-12T14:55:06+00:00

No straight man would ever identify as bi.

Just because a thing is rare doesn't mean it never happens. I've had a couple of definitely-straight guys tell me they were bisexual basically because they found anime boys attractive. Sure, they might have said it to impress(?) me in particular, but it's proof that it CAN happen. And considering how everyone wants in the club these days....

But I agree it probably isn't the current route of choice since Trans grabs more attention. And depending on how you go about it, it doesn't even take any effort. From what I've seen, straight guys who really want to be ~QUEER~ mostly seem to call themselves nonbinary or decide they're women and start calling themselves lesbians. Which is partly why this forum exists.

lesbians barely experience actual, real homophobia

Is that really a can of worms you want to open up? I won't dwell on this, but I will say that just because lesbians experience a different form of homophobia doesn't mean it isn't "real" or that it doesn't have consequences. Sometimes horrific ones, including corrective rape.

As for the rest, well.... You do you.

RaspberryTea · 2021-07-11T20:53:10+00:00

I wonder how many of these "bi" people are basically just straight, but desperate to be part of the +~QUEER~+ club. I'll bet it's rather common these days, given there's now clout to be gained if you're desperate enough and/or have enough cluster B traits going on.

As for the rest, it seems logical to me that bisexual people with significant, serious same-sex attraction would want to be around gays/lesbians to talk about those experiences and feelings. It's the common ground we share. And there really isn't a viable bisexual community, probably because we're so varied. You've got men, you've got women, you've got those who are mostly same-sex attracted, those who are mostly hetero, the ones who fall right in the middle, the ones who vary with the wind.... It's kind of hard to organize that and on top of this, the newly out ones assume they'll be welcome in the the LGB community. Which, again, seems logical, but it doesn't always work out that way--as the OP here demonstrates. This can lead to some weird effects, such as the significantly same-sex attracted ones calling themselves gay or lesbian so they'll have a place to call home. Hell, when I first came out, I definitely felt pressured to call myself a lesbian and even did for a while because of all the talk about how horrible bi women are.

Unfortunately, the loudest ones also tend to be the straightest. Like the women who are married to men and can't STFU about how ~KWEER~ their marriage is and how they're SO GAY. It's obnoxious and fucks things up for everyone IMO.

EDIT: In case anyone assumes I'm blaming this entire mess on "fake bisexuals", that's not the case. I do think some of it comes from there, but not all of it. Some of it (as I alluded to) probably is coming from bi people who identify as gay for whatever reason, and (since the OP was specifically about the gay male side of things) I'd bet my mother's life at least some of it is coming from FTMs calling themselves gay men.

RaspberryTea