Belgium euthanized a 23 year-old woman because she was sad and her doctors were all shit.

submitted by iamonlyoneman from rtbf.be

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's where I have a difference of opinion. The role of doctor is to help with healing or to reduce suffering of a terminal patient.

How do you draw a distinction in principle between this and forcing people to get vaccinated to (in theory) save lives. In both instances you have society intervening between an adult and their doctor in an effort to reduce lives lost. The vaccine actually seems more the more valid, because theoretically it is protecting other people, where this only protects people from themselves

[–]CreditKnifeMan 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How do you draw a distinction in principle between this and forcing people to get vaccinated to (in theory) save lives.

Doctors are getting paid for both. No difference.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You have opened up a different argument. It is not the same.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You have opened up a different argument. It is not the same.

I am not sure it isn't. IMO A person ought to have ultimate autonomy over their own person - so long as it does not harm another individual or their rights. I accept that harm to a fetus is a legitimate societal concern relating to the rights and autonomy of another living thing, but this issue does not

Both of these issues involve protecting people from themselves, by using the power of the state to intervene. Should we make it a law that I have to get a colonoscopy, because not doing so is tantamount to suicide? Shall we ban cigarettes? Those are a death sentence. Do I have a right to continue drinking alcohol if my liver is failing or is that suicide, and I need my autonomy revoked?

I am curious where you draw the line, and based on what principle, because to me it seems like bringing harm to another is the criteria for which bodily autonomy ought to need restrictions, and I am not sure what principle you would restrict this under that would not similarly justify the use of coercion to force people into all sorts of compelled treatment, or outright ban anything that might be dangerous. I don't personally think suicide is advisable or a good idea in most scenarios, but I also don't think I have a right to decide for another person if they feel otherwise, and nobody else is harmed by their decision, but I am curious as to what you think makes these issues different, and how you draw a line on the issue of bodily autonomy

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It is not the same. You just said it. Doctor assisted suicide/euthanasia is not protecting anyone. What the "patient" does on their own to end their life is one thing, but having a doctor help them is another. I am not disagreeing with you on any of the rest, so you may be misreading what I am saying.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What the "patient" does on their own to end their life is one thing, but having a doctor help them is another. I am not disagreeing with you on any of the rest, so you may be misreading what I am saying.

Thanks for the response. I think this was the piece of the argument I was not seeing. I was looking at it in terms of the patient's autonomy and the perspective of the state apparatus, but not from the perspective of the doctor. Appreciate the explanation, I can somewhat understand the point you are getting at here

so you may be misreading what I am saying.

Yeah I was, I did not understand where people with this stance were coming from. I often don't agree with people, but it is easier to treat people like human beings rather than enemies when I understand the rationale, so I was looking for an explanation like this

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess it sounded like I was disagreeing with you instead of my take on why people are upset over suicide. I also probably read too much into your comment.