all 36 comments

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

(google translate)

Her name was Shanti De Corte. She was 23 years old. On May 7, 2022, the young Flemish was euthanized, surrounded by her family. Six years earlier, Shanti De Corte was at Brussels National Airport when the terrorists set off their bomb. A poignant story.

An already fragile victim It is the accomplishment of a school career. An important moment in a life. On March 22, 2016, Shanti De Corte was to fly to Rome on a graduation trip. That morning, she was in the departures hall of Brussels-National airport with 90 other students from Sint-Rita college in Kontich, in the province of Antwerp. When the terrorists detonated their explosives, Shanti De Corte was only a few meters away from them. And if she was not physically injured, the young Flemish woman came out of the attack traumatized, as confirmed by the school psychologist who took care of the students :

"There are some students who react worse than others to traumatic events. And having interviewed her twice, I can tell you that Shanti De Corte was one of these fragile students. For me, it's Clearly, she already had serious psychological problems before the attack. So I referred her to psychiatry."

A few weeks after March 22, Shanti was hospitalized in a psychiatric facility in Antwerp. A place she knows well since she has already been there several times before the attacks. Shanti De Corte receives treatment with antidepressants there. On her Facebook wall, which she uses as a diary, Shanti talks about this medication several times:

"I get multiple meds for breakfast. And up to 11 antidepressants a day. I couldn't live without them."

"With all the drugs I'm taking, I feel like a ghost who doesn't feel anything anymore. Maybe there were other solutions than drugs."

Euthanasia as the only way out? For several months, Shanti De Corte went back and forth between the hospital and her home. In 2018, when she was again interned, she suffered an attempted sexual assault from another patient. When she is better, Shanti leaves the hospital and does not hesitate to testify in the press. She wants to be an example for other victims. A living proof that one can get out of it after having been confronted with scenes of war and the carnage of the attacks. But the upturn is short-lived. In 2020, Shanti makes another suicide attempt. Her morale is low. Her increasingly heavy medication.

Those around her are worried. Especially Shanti's five best friends. They too were at the airport on March 22, 2016. They too are struggling to overcome the events. To get better, the five students took part in a therapeutic week at the Villa Royale in Ostend. The project is led by Myriam Vermandel, also a victim of the attacks in Brussels. Thanks to a public subsidy of 800,000 euros, Myriam Vermandel offers medical and therapeutic care to the victims of the attacks in Brussels. More than 150 of them have already taken part in these stays. "It was her friends who alerted us to Shanti's situation," explains Myriam Vermandel."They drew our attention to the number of medications she took every day. They also explained to us that Shanti had already made several requests for euthanasia for unalterable mental suffering, but that they had all been refused so far. "

Sensitized by Shanti's situation, one of the therapists who officiates in Ostend then makes an offer of care to the young girl. A letter that she sends to the psychiatrist who takes care of her:

" I was informed that Shanti suffered from complex trauma and that the only solution offered to her to date is the acceptance of her request for euthanasia. Without obviously questioning this solution a priori, my experience in victimology raises some questions in me. This is why I would like to meet Shanti if you agree when I am in Ostend, the week of April 25."

But, against all odds, Shanti De Corte's psychiatrist declines the invitation:

"Dear Madame Neyrolles, I have transferred your proposal to the patient and to the medical team taking care of her. Mademoiselle De Corte asks me to tell you that she is not interested in your proposal."

"Tears of love were streaming, softly down my face." Shanti De Corte will never come to Ostend. The student, however, approaches Leif, an association that defends the right to die with dignity. We are in April 2022, when the young Flemish woman submits a new request for euthanasia for irrevocable psychiatric suffering. This time, two psychiatrists accede to her request as required by law. On May 7, 2022, Shanti De Corte was euthanized at the age of 23 surrounded by her family. She leaves this epitaph on her Facebook wall:

"I laughed and I cried. Until the very last day. I loved and I was allowed to feel what true love was. I will now leave in peace. Know that I miss you already. "

A direct victim of the March 22 attacks was therefore euthanized at the age of 23. On the side of the Federal Commission for the Control and Evaluation of Euthanasia, we are told that the law has been respected and that the " young girl was in such psychological suffering that her request was logically accepted. "

But for the neurologist at the CHU Brugman Paul Deltenre, who intervened in the file, "there was nothing to lose by accepting the offer of care proposed by the Ostend therapeutic team."

According to several sources, a judicial investigation concerning the euthanasia of Shanti De Corte has been opened at the Antwerp public prosecutor's office. Contacted, the latter did not confirm the information.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

We know people are far more likely to get the worst effects of PTSD if they have had a bad childhood.

So no surprise her useless family are lined up by her bedside watching her being killed rather than pushing the doctors to actually help her.

This is why these laws are so dangerous, the most vulnerable mentally ill people don't have anyone to stand up for them or fight their corner. Often that is the reason they are sick in the first place.

Pretty much every hospital is deadly if you don't have family to look out for you, no matter the culture of the country, and I can't see there has been any solution found to this problem.

[–]CoCo_Goldstein 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This was predicted when euthanasia was legalized. Slippery slope, y'all.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm usually in support of the availability of euthanasia, although I generally felt this were best applied to those who are elderly, sick or generally in a level of untreatable despair that we can understand that euthanasia be the kinder option. Despite having been a survivor of trauma, I would question this decision as I know all too well that the.mind is not concrete, it doesn't remain unchanged throughout life and in a matter of months or years she may have held a very different perception of her life. This seems almost like a victim of the medication she was on. Young adults especially tend not to react well to certain antidepressants and can have violent thoughts or suicide ideation. Her decision should have first been assessed against a change of medication. Else, what can you do against a person's decision?

[–]jet199Instigatrix 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

If she's really decided to kill herself she would have just done it herself.

With this system she gets to have a grand performance and validation from all the people going through it with her.

Likely if this law hadn't been in place she would never have gone through with it.

Women attempt suicide more than men but kill themselves less because are far less successful. This is due to their attempts being usually cries for help rather than actually wanting death.

This set up will turn hundreds of people's need for attention (or any basic acknowledgment they are alive, suicide is most common in the socially isolated) into their deaths.

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]jet199Instigatrix 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And the reporting of this news story will have the same effect.

Suicide is socially contagious. We like to think we are all logical individuals who make our own decisions but we aren't.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

She is an adult, and it's her body and her life. Who are you to judge whether her suffering reaches a high enough bar to be granted an end to it on her own terms

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's not her life. God gives life.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's not her life. God gives life.

In civilized societies our rights aren't determined by religious beliefs, nor do we force our religious beliefs on others. This is not a legally valid precedent

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Civilization doesn't dictate the terms of reality LOL

[–]jet199Instigatrix 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There are good treatments for PTSD now.

This is like someone killing themselves over having a stomach ulcer because no one has given them antibiotics yet (which also used to happen).

[–]Zapped 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Because it makes people sad to see someone want to end their life. It is not a normal thing. Flip this around and say, "Who are the doctors to be the ones to put someone to death because they asked".

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Flip this around and say, "Who are the doctors to be the ones to put someone to death because they asked".

The kind of doctor I would want, who respected my autonomy, and used their expertise to help me achieve the outcome I desire, rather than denying it to me for whatever reason. Its purely a matter of principle

[–]CreditKnifeMan 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

People in primitive and developing countries laugh at the idea of suicide.

It's idiotic. A symptom of a social mental disease.

Almost every surviving bridge jumper instantly regrets the choice. Survivors often become motivational speakers, etc.

Depression can be remedied. Death is game over.

[–]Zapped 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

whatever reason

That's where I have a difference of opinion. The role of doctor is to help with healing or to reduce suffering of a terminal patient.

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"unhappy" is not a terminal condition unless your doctors are shit

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's where I have a difference of opinion. The role of doctor is to help with healing or to reduce suffering of a terminal patient.

How do you draw a distinction in principle between this and forcing people to get vaccinated to (in theory) save lives. In both instances you have society intervening between an adult and their doctor in an effort to reduce lives lost. The vaccine actually seems more the more valid, because theoretically it is protecting other people, where this only protects people from themselves

[–]CreditKnifeMan 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How do you draw a distinction in principle between this and forcing people to get vaccinated to (in theory) save lives.

Doctors are getting paid for both. No difference.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You have opened up a different argument. It is not the same.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You have opened up a different argument. It is not the same.

I am not sure it isn't. IMO A person ought to have ultimate autonomy over their own person - so long as it does not harm another individual or their rights. I accept that harm to a fetus is a legitimate societal concern relating to the rights and autonomy of another living thing, but this issue does not

Both of these issues involve protecting people from themselves, by using the power of the state to intervene. Should we make it a law that I have to get a colonoscopy, because not doing so is tantamount to suicide? Shall we ban cigarettes? Those are a death sentence. Do I have a right to continue drinking alcohol if my liver is failing or is that suicide, and I need my autonomy revoked?

I am curious where you draw the line, and based on what principle, because to me it seems like bringing harm to another is the criteria for which bodily autonomy ought to need restrictions, and I am not sure what principle you would restrict this under that would not similarly justify the use of coercion to force people into all sorts of compelled treatment, or outright ban anything that might be dangerous. I don't personally think suicide is advisable or a good idea in most scenarios, but I also don't think I have a right to decide for another person if they feel otherwise, and nobody else is harmed by their decision, but I am curious as to what you think makes these issues different, and how you draw a line on the issue of bodily autonomy

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It is not the same. You just said it. Doctor assisted suicide/euthanasia is not protecting anyone. What the "patient" does on their own to end their life is one thing, but having a doctor help them is another. I am not disagreeing with you on any of the rest, so you may be misreading what I am saying.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What the "patient" does on their own to end their life is one thing, but having a doctor help them is another. I am not disagreeing with you on any of the rest, so you may be misreading what I am saying.

Thanks for the response. I think this was the piece of the argument I was not seeing. I was looking at it in terms of the patient's autonomy and the perspective of the state apparatus, but not from the perspective of the doctor. Appreciate the explanation, I can somewhat understand the point you are getting at here

so you may be misreading what I am saying.

Yeah I was, I did not understand where people with this stance were coming from. I often don't agree with people, but it is easier to treat people like human beings rather than enemies when I understand the rationale, so I was looking for an explanation like this

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess it sounded like I was disagreeing with you instead of my take on why people are upset over suicide. I also probably read too much into your comment.

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

How can I see these doctors?

[–]iamonlyoneman[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

step 0: be belgique

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just go there

[–]slurper 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

I say big fucking deal and good riddance. She is dead. We all die.

I have been talking about my suicide for two years in this forum and what do I get? Not one single kind word. A couple of the users here stalk me and make rude remarks to me and that cunt that runs this place bans me

May you all contract irreversible STD's and suffer the fate of the girl in the above story.

Fuck all of you fake motherfucks

[–]jet199Instigatrix 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

It's not like a suicidal person to think everything is about them and to despise other human beings.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[removed]

    [–]jet199Instigatrix 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    I'm literally just describing your post. If you don't want people to see you that way rethink the way you talk about others.

    Everyone sucks arse as a counsellor.

    Who do you know that has been cured of their problems by therapy?

    [–]David_Allen_Cope1 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I've considered reaching out to you when you talk about suicide but I probably don't have anything to say you haven't heard before. Probably just annoy you and get a hostile reaction.

    [–]IndianaJonesIf I asked you for a hug, would you say yes? 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Ditto to that. As someone who understands suicidal thoughts, how could I possibly talk someone out of it without lying to them or repeating a platitude from the suicide bingo? Best I could do is just try to comfort them and be there for them.

    [–]AnimeRespecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    this annoys me and it make no sense. You want to die because you survived a terrorist attack? Shouldn't you be happy? Why did you even live in the first place then, if you going to die in the end anyway? Someone else should have survived rather than her if this was going to be the end result.

    [–]dissidentrhetoric 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Probably on pharmaceuticals SSRIs