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[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't see how Paul absolves the Pharisees and Romans of guilt from the crucifixion either.

"He died to pay back man's debt to God for original sin."

That narrative, invented by Paul, absolves everyone involved because it says God did it. It says it was God's plan that his own son should die in a blood sacrifice to pay man's debt to God therefore if everyone involved in the crucifixion was part of Gods plan, how can they carry any guilt?

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"He died to pay back man's debt to God for original sin."

That narrative, invented by Paul

Woah back off right there. "Original sin" I think was invented by celebrity pastors in recent times, not Paul. Secondly there are many different perspectives on Paul's "ransom" belief, including that it was made to demonic rulers of this world so they lose control over us. But if there was no ransom at all, then the crucifixion was entirely in vain.

It says it was God's plan that his own son should die in a blood sacrifice to pay man's debt to God therefore if everyone involved in the crucifixion was part of Gods plan, how can they carry any guilt?

No, that's not at all how it was presented. The enemies thought they were killing Jesus when really they had been tricked into fulfilling his plan. Otherwise they would promote the idea of atonement, which they viciously oppose and persecute with the sword.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I never said Paul invented original sin and it was not invented by pastors either. Original sin is described in Genesis 3.

What I said was, Paul invented the story that Jesus died to pay mans debt for that original sin.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Original sin isn't mentioned in Genesis 3. Only the three characters who comitted sin. And in all likelihood four, because the "god" of this story acts more like a brainwashing devil who uses people as cattle and has zero mercy, did in fact lie about the fruit, and seems to think there is more than one god ("man has become like one of us). Which means he is not in fact THE God, but rather an entity that calls itself a god aka a demon or archon. Internal evidence shows that the name YHWH was inserted into this story later, because it awkwardly says "YHWH God" and the dialogue does not contain it. And if you think that's because they weren't supposed to say it, take a look at Genesis 4 where suddenly it does appear in the dialogue, and the text drops "God" at precisely the same time. Clearly the person who wrote chapter 4 redacted chapters 2-3 from an older version. Probably the same writer emphasizes the importance of clearly pagan rituals such as animal sacrifice (not as a symbol or act of devotion, but to create a "pleasing aroma") and is called out in Jeremiah 7-8, which is unfortunately purposely mistranslated in nearly all Bibles to conceal this. Actually the entire "Books of Moses" are forgeries authored by Josiah, the Israelite temple cult, the priesthood, the Judahite elites, Ezra the goy-slayer, and the Pharisees and Sadducees. No wonder there's such an immense difference in God's character compared to pretty much every other book of the Bible, aside from the "history" books written by the same person who wrote Deuteronomy.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What?? Are you saying you need to see the actual words ”original sin" before you can understand that Genesis 3 describes the first sin? I mean seriously? What do you think is the significance of Genesis 3 otherwise?