Why do people on here believe in conspiracy theories so much?

submitted by neomarxist_bullshit from self.whatever

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[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Anyone that does networking in their field gets together with other people who practice or work in the same type of job, and talk about it and share ideas.

Sure, I can agree with that.

But even without going there, it is not hard to see why the governments of the world have implemented the same solutions to the pandemic (as an example). There is something going on that they will not share with the public, and this is evident based on how they are synchronizing and promoting the same solutions (everywhere masks, lockdowns, vax, etc.).

Didn't we have this before during the Spanish flu pandemic for example?

Masks and so on are good countermeasures to respiratory diseases, no?

So in regards to the pandemic, it is not far-fetched to conclude that governments in Western countries are conspiring to control the public and using this virus as an excuse.

I'm sure some could use it to pass authoritarian laws, corrupt politicians could get rich from hasty purchases of overpriced PPE/vaccines etc. At least in Czechia where I live I don't have the feeling the government is trying to get me though. We've had lockdowns and such, but they've been very careful not to make people angry since there will be elections soon (at some point I think that our prime minister probably paid more attention to what regular citizens say than to recommendations from experts).

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Masks and so on are good countermeasures to respiratory diseases, no?

It sort of depends. Cloth masks don't really have pores small enough to block out a lot of microorganisms though. Here's a study done in 2015 and there's a lot of info here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

The trend for all outcomes showed the lowest rates of infection in the medical mask group and the highest rates in the cloth mask arm. The study design does not allow us to determine whether medical masks had efficacy or whether cloth masks were detrimental to HCWs by causing an increase in infection risk. Either possibility, or a combination of both effects, could explain our results. It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask. The physical properties of a cloth mask, reuse, the frequency and effectiveness of cleaning, and increased moisture retention, may potentially increase the infection risk for HCWs. The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,29 and modelling studies have quantified the contamination levels of masks.30 Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. For example, a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer. We also showed that filtration was extremely poor (almost 0%) for the cloth masks. Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention.31 These effects may be associated with cloth masks.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure, but still better than nothing I'd say... if you get on the subway and someone with a cold sneezes into your face, you are likely to get it as well. If one wears a mask, it might help to protect others from being infected if it stops droplets from one's mouth etc.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

😮

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what?

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

At least in Czechia where I live I don't have the feeling the government is trying to get me though

That's good then. Haven't heard much from many countries, but I do know there are many like Australia, Canada, UK, and others which are clamping down hard, and there is little to no justification. I mean if some countries are doing well without that kind of authoritarian control (health pass, harsh lockdowns, etc), then why would it be needed for the rest of the countries? Why does it work in some countries but not in others? It's clearly to do with something more than just health. It seems to be politics, power and money.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Weren't the hospitals full of ill people at some point though? Our health care system wasn't overwhelmed (maybe due to the lockdowns), but in other countries it was. China did it as well, and more effectively than our governments ever could.

Also when a lot of people catch it and get immunity + a number of people get vaccinated, there may not be reasons for future lockdowns. Even the politicians here are saying that there won't be another one, and I could believe that. People will get mad and it's gonna destroy the economy if we do it again.

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Well, the full hospitals goes into a bit more to blame and involve media collusion with government agenda and grab for power. This was just posted as an example: https://saidit.net/s/news/comments/8fba/are_we_being_played_citizens_did_their_own/

Basically it's easy to report hospitals are full, because no one will go and check. There's no easy way to confirm that, and even if they are, there's no easy way to confirm WHY they're getting full. Meaning that maybe they just reduced their capacity after a few months of no more people getting sick and now there is small spike so they are full. It seems to be propaganda so people just comply with the gov. plan.

Also in the U.S. you get censored on social media for suggesting natural immunity. The official narrative doesn't want to consider that as an alternative, even though millions of people already recovered from it. So yeah, it could just be corruption in certain countries only.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Basically it's easy to report hospitals are full, because no one will go and check.

Wouldn't that be a huge secret every hospital employee would need to keep?

Just like the news reports in the linked video that are allegedly manipulative, so could be the clips of "empty hospitals" put together by some random people on the internet who want to push their anti-covid narrative.

I have no firsthand experience with how full the hospitals were when the shit hit the fan besides what our government told us and what was in the news, but when I went to get tested around last Christmas, I did wait in a really long and slow line (even though I reserved my spot through an online reservation system).

The hospitals also need to keep some free capacity for "regular" non-Covid patients so I don't think it's difficult to imagine that when you suddenly start getting thousands of new cases each day as we did, these beds reserved for Covid patients could get filled quickly.

Also in the U.S. you get censored on social media for suggesting natural immunity.

Well yeah because the social media giants are cancer that needs to be regulated via law so that people don't get censored.

[–]proc0 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wouldn't that be a huge secret every hospital employee would need to keep?

They're unable to keep that secret, as many don't believe. Also, employees get coerced into not talking about stuff like this. Watch Project Veritas latest few videos on this on YT.

Just like the news reports in the linked video that are allegedly manipulative, so could be the clips of "empty hospitals" put together by some random people on the internet who want to push their anti-covid narrative.

That's possible, but then the question becomes who has more to gain from their own agenda? Does mainstream narrative gain more by having people believe everyone is sick, or do individuals gain more by making others believe there are no sick people? I just don't see how individuals gain anything from lying about empty hospitals. They don't have any kind of platform or product to sell, and I'm seeing this in many countries. There was a video of someone in Italy doing the same thing, going around hospitals and showing how empty they were.

I don't think it's difficult to imagine that when you suddenly start getting thousands of new cases each day as we did, these beds reserved for Covid patients could get filled quickly.

It's possible, but again, it's just so hard to verify, and the mainstream media have a track record of lying already. It's more probable they are still lying, in my opinion.

Well yeah because the social media giants are cancer that needs to be regulated via law so that people don't get censored.

Completely agree there, but also it's social media working alongside government, and that is also proven now. There were leaked emails, conversations, and the pattern is clear. Gov. here hasn't mentioned natural immunity at all, and dodged the question on national TV.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I just don't see how individuals gain anything from lying about empty hospitals. They don't have any kind of platform or product to sell, and I'm seeing this in many countries.

Good feeling, just like anyone does from promoting what they consider "right"/"true"? From sharing news they agree with on sites like this one or Reddit to show others their worldview is right.

We have an anti-Covid politician (one of many, but this one is really hardcore) in our parliament who said stuff like Covid was being thrown out of a DHL plane: https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/poslanec-volny-koronavirus-biologicka-zbran.A210305_120306_domaci_vank This particular guy has a lot to gain since his party in the near elections will get some votes and then money from the government if he gets more than 1.5 % of the votes or something.

It's not impossible for me to imagine that someone could by mistake or on purpose put together information that is false to push their narrative.

I think that if the hospitals and everyone were really lying the truth would come out eventually. We have strong opposition to our currently governing party that would do anything to cause damage if they could. If they found out about anything actually shady (except the usual stuff like overpriced PPE purchases, alleged conflicts of interest of our prime minister and such) they would literally lose their minds from the sheer schadenfreude they'd have. We have prominent doctors, hospital directors etc. who commented the situation in various news outlets as well - it's difficult to think that they all would be in on it. At least here in my country. Maybe you guys have it different over there, I do not live there so I don't know :)

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Good feeling, just like anyone does from promoting what they consider "right"/"true"? It's not impossible for me to imagine that someone could by mistake or on purpose put together information that is false to push their narrative.

Yeah, that's a valid point. However keep in mind that the polarization of people was started by the current political parties that are in power right now. Then that got stronger once the pandemic hit, and platforms like reddit simply do not allow ANY kind of deviation from the mainstream narrative. What I'm trying to say is that censorship has contributed to people going out of their way to prove for themselves what is really going on. If conversation was allowed to happen, maybe public consensus could have already been reached, yet for whatever reason it has become more political and more polarized, with more and more people opposing the so-called solutions for this pandemic.

I think that if the hospitals and everyone were really lying the truth would come out eventually

That seems to be what is going on right now. Many people have been speaking out. It just continues to get censored and silenced. There are too many doctors opposing the jab, and too many people opposing mandates, but the general public does not hear them because the platforms have synchronized their censorship, even before the pandemic.

Yes, it's possible millions of people around the world are going crazy for whatever reason, and mistakenly think government has bad intentions... OR governments actually have bad intentions and are manipulating media and censoring people. Which one is more likely if we look at history? And also, which one is a safer bet? If we're wrong about government, society might walk into another huge political disasters as we have seen during the 20th century over and over.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What I'm trying to say is that censorship has contributed to people going out of their way to prove for themselves what is really going on

Agreed, when you don't allow discussion to happen, the censored people might feel like victims and it will likely lead to them only strengthening their beliefs.

Yes, it's possible millions of people around the world are going crazy for whatever reason, and mistakenly think government has bad intentions... OR governments actually have bad intentions and are manipulating media and censoring people. Which one is more likely if we look at history?

I forgot to mention a molecular geneticist from my country who got famous for not adhering to the "official narrative", who said that Covid would disappear till the end of 2020 and so on: https://www.novinky.cz/koronavirus/clanek/pekova-druha-vlna-nebude-za-pul-roku-covid-zmizi-40326320 Just like the politician I mentioned previously, not everyone who is skeptical is right. There's lies/misinformation on the anti-Covid side as well. And when you hear people get health problems from alternative medicine they were told to take (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7278768/) you just have to shake your head.

Yes, it's possible millions of people around the world are going crazy for whatever reason, and mistakenly think government has bad intentions... OR governments actually have bad intentions and are manipulating media and censoring people.

It is true that there is censorship and it could be true that sometimes the government ought not to be trusted... But so far I do not see any warning signs that something really shady is happening where I live. I just see incompetence mostly.

I have nothing against people who will not take the vaccine, it's a personal decision, and we should be responsible for our own health.

I guess I might have it easier than others because of my "nihilistic" worldview I expressed in this thread elsewhere, and the fact that I don't have a family of my own, so maybe it's easier for me to not really seek out the patterns, who knows. I did not get ill from the Pfizer shots, don't know anyone in my circle who did, so... only time will tell who was right.

[–]proc0 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But so far I do not see any warning signs that something really shady is happening where I live.

That could be true where you live, but regardless I hope you are right everywhere. It is possible that larger Western countries are being targeted first and others would follow somehow, but I would rather be wrong in my distrust of how things have been approached.

That first article is good news, but nothing like that is mentioned in any media in the U.S. that I know of, unless it is used as bait for people getting vaxed. I also acknowledge the potential dangers of having people self-medicate with drugs like HCQ, but that wouldn't happen in doctors would be more open to alternative treatments for those who want it.

I have nothing against people who will not take the vaccine, it's a personal decision, and we should be responsible for our own health.

That's great, and that makes sense. They're talking about the virus going around to everyone, so i don't see how it matters to people are already vaxed whether others suffer and/or die by their own decisions.

I did not get ill from the Pfizer shots, don't know anyone in my circle who did, so... only time will tell who was right.

Well I hope you and everyone remains side effect free, and also healthy. I've already had it, but I'm being extra careful anyway, not going into crowds and such. In the U.S. there could be more at stake because of track record of government abuse already. Everyone now agrees 9/11 allowed government spying on phones and people's personal info.

Good discussion!