If we the people, the working class, finally stood up and seized the means of production (like any effective revolution should do!) then the worthless fat capitalists would be devastated

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[–]Questionable 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Lets start by ending globalism, you go straight for the end goal, and you will just destroy the system. Hint, our food supply and livelyhood relies on the systems in place. True idealism takes decades to implement, burning down your own society only allows for greater corruption.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

This has been a hard lesson for angry truth-seekers to come around to. It took me a long time to see it, and I still want to refute it. Only because I think there is a major numbers problem here. Too many ignorant people are following the words of evil, intelligent people. The good, intelligent people do not have the same power base. I feel like we need to thin the numbers a bit if there is to be a good fighting chance at generational fixes. Right now, there are too many ignorant people who could be pulled away from the generational fixes because its easier to do something else.

[–]Questionable 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

From what I can see, you can manipulate intelligent people as easily as you can manipulate the masses. Not only is intelligence rated in different manners, and cover different aspects of knowledge, it also can mask a lack of overall thinking skills, which is not the same thing.

I could go into some detail on how recollection works, and the importance of belief systems. Yet the short quick rule of thumb is people need to question everything. Look for connections, decide on what the actual outcomes are.

Cares act, Heroes act, heals act. Huge quagmires of false fronts. Yet what are people doing to stop these things? Nothing, they are taking money from BLM and Soros to further these goals of corporate socialism control.

Could socialized finances work? Sure, but as usual, not like this. What's happening is just another round or corruption claiming the ends justify the means. And they rarely do, and never at this scale. This is just destruction and chaos, with the sole purpose of masking earlier corruptions.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I only meant that I think there aren't enough people following your line of thought. There are too many people caught up in all the different ideologies to gather them together to fix one problem. In the old days, if I were a clan leader, I could get other clan leaders together and enact change. Nowadays, you have to work with so many different opposing groups that I just don't think it will work. It's the right path to take, its careful and logical. There is no reason to burn everything down when dismantling it gives you a bunch of recycled material. Burning it all down is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. You and I may disagree on the likelihood of ending globalism, but we agree by stating that that is step number one. I just don't see it happening. It's much more likely that humanity will continue down this path, destroy itself through war or neglect (we can avoid major damage from natural disasters if we pooled our military money there) then rebuild itself from smaller numbers.

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My apologies, sometimes I go on tangents about things I feel are important. Which aren't as much the means of doing things, as they are ways of perceiving them. So if it seems my comments were somewhat detached from your comments, there is a good chance they were.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do the same! It's all good. At least we didn't fall to pieces calling each other names ;)

[–]GConly 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If the workers were capable or running the systems of production they'd be the owners and/or managers not the workers.

Most people are clueless about how hard it is to set up and run a successful production system. Most people who inherit or win huge amounts of money spend it all. The number of people capable of running a business (and willingness to put in the effort) is in single digits percent wise. When it comes to the kinds of organisation and effort needed to set up and run complex production chains it's one in thousands. Move up a step to international companies and it's even less common.

It's why communism was such an abject failure. People with no particular skill at complex system organisation ended up in charge.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

This is a foolish way of thinking. I know many workers who would make better bosses: they have better ideas. These people tend to lack money, formal education (a pre-requisite for most higher-jobs) and opportunity. Even if they get any one of these things, or all of them, they still may get beaten by a competing company who makes shittier items and treats their employees worse only because said company can cut costs and keep its income/debt ratio at a good place. Successful businesses and rich business men aren't always signs of a great product or a competent company. Shitty companies and shitty products are rampant, my guy. I know plenty of unsuccessful people who would run this country better than any of the rich bums who currently run it.

[–]GConly 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

. I know many workers who would make better bosses: they have better ideas.

There is a world not difference between having a good idea and being able to run a business. A fact lost on most people. It's complex logistically and requires a lot of time and effort.

These people tend to lack money, formal education

About a third of millionaires come from a 'from scratch' backgrounds. As in starting with no cash and starting their own business. A quite surprising number of them don't have much higher education.

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/articles/7-myths-about-millionaires

Of the current Forbes 400, there were 34 with a top score of 10; 64 with a score of 9; 130 with a score of 8; 37 with a score of 7; and only 10 with a 6.

That's 177 out of 400 that had a pretty basic start (middle class no inheritance) working class or poverty start.

You should also bear in mind income and social class have a significant genetic component (via IQ, self control, conscientiousness, risk taking and assertiveness and other traits).

About three out of 10 billionaires—29.9%—around the world did not have at least a bachelors degree in 2015, according to a billionaire census by Wealth-X. That's 739 out of the total 2,473 billionaires.

That's actually a little lower than average for America, at about 34%. But you should be aware that a degree is also a proxy for intelligence and conscientiousness.

they still may get beaten by a competing company who makes shittier items

May, but not usually. Market forces tend to kick crappy products to the kerb when better ones cone along.

Successful businesses and rich business men aren't always signs of a great product or a competent company

Rich businessmen can get that way by ripping off people. Long term successful businesses are by their definition competent at what they do.

I know plenty of unsuccessful people who would run this country better than any of the rich bums who currently run it.

No you don't. If they were good at running shit that's what they'd be doing. You're like the beer bellied sports fans thinking they or their mates could do a better job than the guys on the pitch, because they have no idea exactly what goes into a the activity.

The reason I'm so uptight about this is I came from an underclass background. I've seen bright poor kids socially climb through hard work, brains and money management.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dude, the reason I have this view is because I've been involved in local politics, and I've watched my family climb the social ladder. I have seen our leaders at work, and I can tell you that I DO know people who could run it better. You say that if that's the case, then they'd be there? Dude, this is a capitalist society, to get anywhere, you need capital. So, sure, you could cozy up to banks and get loans, if your credit is good enough. I'm NOT saying that it's impossible to climb the social ladder: case in point, my family has done this. I AM saying that the views you have towards America (the same views rich people have towards America) aren't right when considering how the elite operate. You say that you are from the underclass? I was as well. Now, not as much. I know how things work behind closed doors, because I've seen it. You say I'm like the beer-bellied fan? Money is a big part of moving businesses and politics forwards, and it doesn't breed long-term success, it breeds short-term success. The goal of our shitty GovCorp is to make all these short-term schemes continue on for years and years and years, then praise them as long-term solutions. So, shitty products will beat better products (this is what I've seen as a consumer) and greedy businesses will beat compassionate businesses (I've watched this occur with my own eyes). You would say that their business model is better, and I would agree. The societies and consumers these businesses are modeling their money-making schemes after are not focusing on anything truly life-affirming. Instead, they twist the things we need into things we want, and things we want into things we need. I don't fully blame businesses or politicians for this (everyone has played a part) It's just that their perspectives on value and on productivity are dead-wrong. We need a society less focused on making cash.

[–]weiB 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.

[–]hennojisan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Big Rock Candy Mountain — Burl Ives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3lYqTAlnE

[–]EndlessSunflowers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

and by seize the means of production, it's gonna look different now since those fat greedy fucks already sent most of the "production" jobs overseas for cheap slave labor, because that's what capitalists do

[–]EndlessSunflowers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

It's funny when you see people who aren't Billionaires try to justify that kind of obscene wealth.
There's a great quote about that, how americans think they're all just millionaires in waiting! lol

[–]noice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not all, but a sizable number of Americans do believe they have a chance at incredible wealth. And it is possible. I have a family friend who started from nothing basically and has now accumulated tens of millions in wealth. Through hard work in a business shared with his brother, over about 25 years.

[–]GConly 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

About 1/3 of billionaires and millionaires come from a 'shirtsleeves' background. Another 1/3 come from nice middle class family with no particular wealth.

Self made rich are hated by Marxists because they aren't supposed to be possible. It disproves the 'no one can get out of poverty' bullshit. Even though most people raised in poverty don't live in it as adults.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do like to hear stories like this, for it is the story of my grandfather. The thing is, for these people to make that amount of money, they have to suck corporate dick, or they have to cozy up to the banks. BANKS. I know of few other evils in this world worse than the banking cartel. It's like getting rich off of blood-diamonds.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, but this does not stop the populous of any country to just sit down and not go to work. If we do not work we are basically taking over the production (by not producing and not spending money). It does not matter the factory jobs have left for china and other countries, that support paying their people...nothing, in other words keep the majority of their people below or at the poverty level. Yes, we would have to work together at a level most slaves or people of less financial means have never done in our human past. Yes, there would be a large group of people starving due to no money to pay for the essentials. Hence we would have to work together like never before.

LOL, work together in this media driven separation of all of us into little groups fighting each other with opinions on social media...LOL Conquered by divide.

[–]blowininthewind 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

as much as i sympathize and identify with the working class, i must say reality is going the other way. machines are replacing even white collar jobs and soon almost all the jobs and computers are getting smarter every day. the best way is to have some sorta universal basic income in place at least in the developed nations. but this is perhaps the biggest challenge to humanitarianism since its beginning.