How divisive have we become. Have you lost friends over your viewpoints?

submitted by PencilPusher55 from self.whatever

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[–]Girlwiththeraventat 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Have you asked him why he wants to be a girl? I'm curious about where the whole new wave of all these boys/men wanting to be women is coming from. I mean I obviously know from toxic echo chambers but what are the reasons they give other people. What does being a girl even mean to them? I also find it curious there are more men wanting to be women than women wanting to be men.

It's sad your friend can't discuss that topic other than repeating what they hear online. Saying they feel a certain way doesn't negate biology. I hope your friend can breakaway from the groupthink before they do something drastic like take hormones. Maybe it is worth having a gentle debate just so he hears another side. The hormones and surgery are very serious and the fact that you can buy hormones online without medical supervision is outrageous and extremely dangerous.

[–][deleted] 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

i feel like the reason anyone wants to change their gender is the stereotypes enforced on men and women. men are usually told to be tough and strong, while women are usually told to be submissive and polite. i think men want to be women so they can be able to do "feminine" things without being judged, same probably goes for women but reversed. there are probably more men that want it then women because those kinds of stereotypes aren't enforced on females nearly as much today. as a woman i honestly can't see the appeal of being one, we're weaker, shorter, and honestly don't have many benefits when it comes to biology.

it kind of feels like my friend is too far in at this point. he simply refuses to acknowledge biology and actual science. it's a shame too, he's only 14 and the only things stopping him from taking hormones is the fact that he's scared of doing it under 18. the second he turns 18 i have no doubt he'll try to go for it tho. i'm hoping to encourage him to seek therapy for his gender dysphoria, i don't want him to harm himself over something like this. it makes me sad how so many people our age are being told they're something they're not (and literally can't be) over the stupid stuff enforced on genders.

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I understand that it comes from not fitting in or rejecting stereotypes, but that is such a drastic step just because they want to wear a dress or whatever. I dont think people, especially teenagers, are thinking about the long term of transitioning.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

i completely agree. but i've seen a lot of people in my age group want it for that exact reason. but i think it comes from how us teenagers are pretty fucking stupid. in general teens tend to get easily manipulated, and people on the internet could be making them consider these kinds of drastic changes.

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

That's disappointing because that's really just further enforcing the stereotypes. Yeah most teenagers are dumb, but a lot grow out of it. It's normal because your brain isn't fully developed. That's the predatory nature of this movement, taking kids insecurities and using that to further their agenda. That's why you shouldn't be allowed to transition or take hormones as a kid or teenagers.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

that's exactly how i feel about this whole thing. we should be focusing on proper treatment for gender dysphoria, not allowing people with it to live in a lie and enforcing the gender stereotypes that most likely cause it.

[–]beermeem 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

This is what gets me. That’s why I do support the concept of “gender” and “sex” being different. The idea that “sex” and “gender” are the same is what leads to people thinking they need to go the medical route to express their gender.

Make up all the gender you want. Hell if I care. But there’s only three sexes — XX, XY, and XXY.

Like, go be a drag queen sweety and learn to tuck. You don’t gotta cut your dick off.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

yes! gender and sex are and always have been the same thing. i have no clue who came up with the notion they aren't. the person who came up with that bullshit is the reason people have so many issues with their gender.

[–]beermeem 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Would you agree that there should be a word for an individual’s biological identity and then a different word for socially imposed expectations of behavior and presentation based thereon?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

yes, if it exists you can tell it to me too. it sounds like a good idea

[–]Lastrevio 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The chromosomes don't mean shit. There's no practical use to define the word "sex" to mean your chromosomes, we as humans would have nothing beneficial by defining it that way. There are people with down syndrome and all sorts of illnesses, what are those?

I think we should use the word sex to mean every physical characteristic and the gender should be purely mental. So your sex is whether you have tits or not, whether you have a dick or a vagina and the hormonal balance in your body (which affect your fat distribution, etc.). This way both biological and trans women would be of the women "sex" since there's little to no directly observable differences but would still have different chromosomes and shit.

If you want to separate biological from trans women then we could have a different word for it like birth sex. This layout could clear out confusion.

Then gender would be purely metaphysical. So someone born male who hasn't transitioned but wants to become a female by surgery and hormones would have male birth sex, male physical sex and female gender. After they transition they're male birth sex, female physical sex and female gender.

This would be the most consistent and clear way we could define those terms imo for the most efficient communication.