George Floyd Body cam Video Shows he was saying "I can't Breath" way before being put on the Ground.

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[–]Carnate 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (59 children)

Police shot and killed twice as many whites as blacks last year.

[–]Tarsius 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (56 children)

Why is that any better? Why is it ok that the police kill so many people at all, regardless of skin color? As I see it, the deal we (the people) are having with the state is, that we give it the monopoly on violence in exchange for getting justice without the need for personal revenge. This seems to generally make society a lot less violent, but in the US you have the state pretty much breaking this deal, by being unjustly violent itself. Riots are only the logical conclusion to this and I am wondering why 'all lives matter' isn't on the side of the rioters. Police defunding looks like a bad idea from my perspective, because as I mentioned above, mending the deal would likely make society far less violent, than breaking it completely. Nevertheless it is only logical that people want to do that because they have lost their trust in the police.

[–]justjoggin 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (50 children)

Why is it ok that the police kill so many people at all,

Straw man. Why is ok that doctors kill 200,000?

This whole thing is a pretend issue. Police are part of living in a civilized society. No other races are collectively complaining. Blacks just don’t fit in. It’s not complicated. That’s why they’re getting booted out of China too.

wondering why 'all lives matter' isn't on the side of the rioters.

You could start with 1350, then move to 1390. They simply don’t fit in.

[–]FediNetizen 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

No other races are collectively complaining. Blacks just don’t fit in. It’s not complicated

This is saidit for you I guess.

[–]quickbeam 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

I'm going to keep coming on here and debating because as more people leave reddit we can probably make saidit a more representative forum without this dominance of white supremacist views.

[–]FediNetizen 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I agree. Just engage with them and don't let this shit drive normal people away.

Though you'll be met with a lot of resistance. I already had one dude get so upset he made a subreddit about what a "race-traitor Marxist cuck" I am. Amusingly, he also spelled my name wrong.

[–]NaughtyUnicorn 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Just engage with them and don't let this shit drive normal people away

There's nothing normal about people who riot because they want the cops to leave criminals alone. You guys think you have the moral high ground, but the truth is most of the people in this country don't agree with you. The silent majority is being censored by places like Reddit.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

people who riot because they want the cops to leave criminals alone

That's a total strawman, bud. And you're conflating rioters and protesters. I condemn the rioters. I feel ambivalent about BLM and the idea that cops have a racism problem. I support the people just protesting police brutality.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

You're going to have actual arguments then

[–]quickbeam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I think we'll be okay, but thanks for the concern. :)

[–]Zahn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

It's humorous that they assigned more than just one DNC shill to Saidit this time, the last guy didn't last all that long. These new ones make for a tasty lunch. I've learned a lot about their shared tactics in the process and have been documenting their methods.

[–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

LOL - nah, dude, we're here because Reddit started censoring women and LGB people. Sorry to bust up your conspiracy racket.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wait you aren't getting paid for this? Hit me up in the DMs my man.

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

How do you spot a shill?

[–]Zahn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Shill spotting is a big topic. In regards to the common shill slime that they send here. Some indicators are a strict adherence to the narrative or provided script. Insofar as they won't ever meet you even on neutral ground.

Fed Quixote when he first emerged from his basement, informed us to the effect....he was here to fix this place and correct our viewpoints. Correct The Record perhaps? He's a hopeless contrarian, but I enjoy observing his methodology.

There are many subjects that a normal person would at least concede are possible or debatable that defy mainstream narrative. Not these guys though, line item mainstream scripted rebuttals, until they run out of them. Also DNC type shills frequently weave an anti Trump sentiment into their posts, needlessly even. You will notice they also seem to have a lot of time on their hands to write bloated walls of text to create conversational "noise". It's an "I am very smart" moment and they don't actually say anything that moves the conversation forward.

Oh, and these type of shills seem to be instilled with a great deal of hatred considering their frequent use of slurs, slanders and ad hominem attacks. It's almost like being a maladjusted foul mouthed person is a hiring requirement. They're trained to use propagandized slanders like: extremist, wing nuts, conspiratards, racist, tin foil hat, supremacist....etc you understand.

More insidious type shills are ones that appear to hold similar beliefs as the predominate sentiment of other users. However, they will weave a dissenting narrative that is almost subconscious until you see it.

For instance not too long ago, a user was appearing to be very right wing, until it was noticed that every third post he was injecting the statement that the "right was eating itself". Which of course is a falsehood. It's a common demoralization tactic.

There are others who also appear to be ideologically aligned but they are vitriolic and pointlessly extreme in their positions. Which could include calls to violence. It would appear that they are attempting to create a false association of legitimately concerned people with a dangerous belligerence in a partial effort to scare off people who are seeking answers.

There are so many flavors of shills, it's fun to taste them all!

It's all about perception management, consensus and sentiment influence as the goal.

There are outliers, some people just naturally do some of these things instead of pursuing professional help or a productive hobby instead.

[–]FediNetizen 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's simple. If you're on Saidit and they appear to be left-leaning, they're a shill.

[–]Velocity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Supremacists", ok boomer. Those slurs don't have the affect you think they do.

[–]justjoggin 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Meaning accurate? You stopped short of articulating something meaningful here.

[–]monkeytitz 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any response to his first sentence?

[–]lordNikon 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Policing techniques wildly vary from one country to another, even between states. US police are viewed as 'brutal' (but the States always gets put on trial, comes with the territory)

This is an opportunity to reform policing standards, policies, oversight, judgement in the event of misconduct, etc. If you don't take the opportunity now the situation will most likely repeat itself. Looking at the whole situation, large change is needed but it needn't be negative.

Polishing up a taxpayer service is surely a good thing don't you think?

Blacks don't fit in

I find no weight behind this statement. So many in our society are seamlessly integrated so therefore productive and engaged.

[–]justjoggin 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Police are a non issue in America. Again no groups are complaining except blacks and those in their behalf. They don’t work in the first world. 1350 and 1390 say all that needs to be said.

So many in our society are seamlessly integrated so therefore productive and engaged.

If whites were 13 percent of the population in Nigeria committing 50 percent of the murders consuming a massively disproportionate share of the welfare I’m sure “productive and engaged” would be how you describe them.

[–]lordNikon 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's a fantastic non-answer. Seamless integration means I had to really think about it to pick them out, so if it sounds like an odd descript that's because it is difficult to think of them outside of the societal whole. I know a lot that are kick ass engineers, real assets; they're going nowhere. Intensely need their expertise. I'm not stuck in the USA though, your problems are... Culturally specific.

I see a huge demographic mixture of American Citizens advocating for reforms on vast aspects of the policing system. You might not want to see that. I can't make you.

You got a basis for the White Supreme Number Cream statistics?

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i see a huge demographic mixture of American Citizens advocating for reforms on vast aspects of the policing system. You might not want to see that.

There was also a huge number of people who believed there were “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq. Are you not familiar with how propaganda works? There are no numbers supporting this disproportionate “police on black murders” idea (which has now quietly been downgraded to “police brutality,” conveniently making it even harder to verify.)

know a lot that are kick ass engineers

So.

What part of “Blacks are 13% of the population, but commit 50% of the murders” confuses you? Does your own family member have to become a victim for you to appreciate that this isn’t a good deal?

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

If you don't take the opportunity now the situation will most likely repeat itself. Looking at the whole situation, large change is needed but it needn't be negative.

Yes, kick them back to Africa and you'll have a better economy and less crime. This is what can be done if we take the opportunity now to make sure the situation does not repeat itself.

I find no weight behind this statement. So many in our society are seamlessly integrated so therefore productive and engaged.

Blacks are an economic negative for the US.

[–]lordNikon 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Kick them back to Africa

I mean, you kinda imported them once, so it's your problem now. I have a feeling that deportation is unlikely but you can burn your hopes on that fire of you need to.

An economic negative in one country where there are skewed prospects based upon skin tone is the result of some really loopy ideals over time. No one is going anywhere without a full blown civil war that would be nice and bloody, you're better off educating people and bringing them into economic positivity for all. It's an untapped resource! You're capitalists; so capitalise ffs!

Look, I'm just saying you're not going to get what you want without half the country burning down so work with it or remain a keyboard warrior.

No disrespect. (This website is actually refreshing discussion after the one sided nature of Reddit)!

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I mean, you kinda imported them once, so it's your problem now.

"kinda imported" = "forcefully enslaved them and brought them over on slaveships" I like your language but what we did forcefully back then can be undone forcefully today.

I have a feeling that deportation is unlikely

You start small. Create a unit to send a few back, just a few. Then you slowly expand that unit. It's the "Slippery slope" applied to politics.

An economic negative in one country where there are skewed prospects based upon skin tone is the result of some really loopy ideals over time. No one is going anywhere without a full blown civil war that would be nice and bloody, you're better off educating people and bringing them into economic positivity for all. It's an untapped resource! You're capitalists; so capitalise ffs!

No, it will never work. They have low IQ and they want our blood. Seperation is the best solution.

Look, I'm just saying you're not going to get what you want without half the country burning down so work with it or remain a keyboard warrior.

No, we just need to start small and slowly expand. No one is going to burn the country down just because we send back say 100 criminal blacks. Then next year it can be 500 and so on. After 50 years things can be truly great.

[–]lordNikon 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I know you want to believe in your forceful option but you're really just locked painfully deep in your bubble.

There's no chance it'll happen, you have to work with the system as it is, they're fully home grown Americans now; they're home already! You'll have to break laws, I don't think there's bendable ones that fit this.

Start small then expand

You're dreaming, it's too basic. With high visibility on prosecutorial imbalance towards certain skin tones unfair imprisonment terms will be under a magnifying glass also.

Low IQ Vampires

I don't think they're out to murder Caucasians or drink blood.

50 years

After 50 years of attempting this useless avenue your country will be a smouldering carcass with CCP flags flying above your chicken coop accommodation. You have bigger problems.

Edit: well, that last problem isn't just yours tbf.

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There's no chance it'll happen, you have to work with the system as it is

Of course it can happen lol? People just need to agree that they are a problem which they are and then we need to find a solution which is easy to find.

they're fully home grown Americans now

I disagree.

they're home already! You'll have to break laws, I don't think there's bendable ones that fit this.

You can change the laws.

I don't think they're out to murder Caucasians or drink blood.

Low effort. Please respond to what I wrote.

After 50 years of attempting this useless avenue your country will be a smouldering carcass with CCP flags flying above your chicken coop accommodation. You have bigger problems.

We have bigger problems but we can find solutions to smaller problems at the same time.

[–]lordNikon 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

C'mon, low effort my ass; amused the hell outta me! Also it was answered, they're not out to get you... It sounds like psychotic reasoning. Some Americans are criminals, most reports here show a mixture of demographics for your worst crimes, mostly Caucasian though; fitting the US demographic really, 75% of your crime is by Caucasians in our media, and some really sick sick sh1t to be fair, all skin tones qualifying.

Your arguments are tunnel vision thinking and without scope you have zero chance of ever achieving what you're dreaming of, dead on arrival expulsion idea. Your idea triggers a civil war for decades, everything on fire. Less apocalyptic thinking needed. You're entertaining though, I'm fucking amused by this!

If you want to imagine it's possible I don't want to bludgeon a deflated dream, I just think you need to think up something with more probability. Don't be dismayed though, Martin Luther King had a dream too! You all get to dream...

Same time problem solving

You don't seem capable as a country currently, get your house in order first. Smashing up international alliances has emboldened those that would seek your downfall also the Red Shield are the only ones to profit as always.

[–]lordNikon 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotta crash, will respond on the morrow.

[–]NaughtyUnicorn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not just blacks, cops kill white thugs too, but who cares. I love how the whole world is trying to protect criminals. If you don't want to be killed by a cop don't be a law breaking asshole.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

My explanation for these positions was in the second part of the comment, which you ignored. I also pretty much said that the police is important to keep violence in check.

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don’t see that. But I do see you trying to legitimize a narrative, for which there is no numeric basis, that is being used to excuse blacks’ inability to cut it in a first world country. Again, no other races are collectively complaining.

By focusing on blacks as victims instead of as perps, you’re aiding and abetting black crime, which is actually based in reality.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You seem pretty obsessed with making this about race while I am talking about police violence in general which is comparatively really high in the US regardless of the victims skin color.

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You were the one “wondering why.” I kindly answered that for you. Now you don’t have to wonder, and you too can be obsessed about the fact that black people, who are only 13% of the population, commit 50% of the murders.

Is it more productive fixing the issue that has a minuscule number of people dying or the one that has an enormous number of people dying?

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I know that black people are on average more violent than white people in the US. I guess you want to tell me that the reason for that is, that black people are somehow naturally more violent (at least that's what I have seen several other posters here claim)? My question then would be: How are you supposed to 'solve' this problem without being extremely violent yourself (and therefore defeating your original point entirely).

I think there is a mixture of reasons responsible for racial violence patterns and none of them are genetic. One of them seems to be a glorification of violence in parts of black culture in the US (eg Hip Hop) another one is probably that black people are on average less wealthy and poor people tend to have to take more desperate measures to sustain themselves and a third one is probably that black people have less trust in the state and the police because of a history of systemic oppression by the US state, which brings me back to my main point in this discussion which you continuously ignore:

My focus was on police violence because the police are representatives of the state and its justice system. Because of this, the police has more responsibility than the average person to avoid unjust violence. If police officers are unjustly violent, people will lose trust in the police as an insititution, which will keep them from calling the police when crime occurs and make them seek justice via personal vendetta or other means, which will in turn beget more violence.

I agree that the problem of black crime should be solved. It would be a good idea to try to alleviate poverty in general, so that at least everyone has a preferable option to turning to crime, there should probably be some sort of educational initiatives to change violent cultures and the police should be reformed or replaced (but I haven't seen any convincing suggestions on how such a replacement should look like tbh). The police should be an institution which can generally be trusted to help people instead of harming them and which doesn't need to be feared if you aren't a violent criminal.

Putting the focus on race is not helpful (and I am well aware that BLM is doing that too and they are just as wrong to do that, as you are) because this will not solve any issues and only agitate people to hate eachother based on arbitrary categories.

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

police brutality

You know what else would be a problem? Pedophile teachers. But just like “pedophile teachers” isn’t an issue, neither is “police brutality.” The media propagandizing an issue does not mean there are actual numbers to support it.

What is the actual problem...the one based in reality??

https://mobile.twitter.com/Laurale71816951/status/1276269703317598208

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1283325342699028482

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1283303273068244993

but why?

As for “why?” Personally, I agree with where all of the global/historical empirical evidence points and what genius Nobel prize winner, James Watson, asserts to be true - genetics - but the more important question is “Who cares?” If blacks want to participate in society, then “why” is THEIR problem to solve.

But for conversation, if you’re stuck on “poverty” being the cause, then here are some things to think about.

Why aren’t the Amish raping, murdering, robbing and assaulting like animals? Same question for whites during the Great Depression when they were dirt poor. Or the Japanese who came Straight out of internment camps dirt poor.

Do you know that the standard of living for the average American welfare recipient is considered “middle class” for half the globe? Is that middle class acting like blacks do?

They are violent for the same reason they were building dung huts at the same time the Romans were building coliseums. They’re different. And that difference isn’t compatible with western living.

solution

It’s interesting how unseriously you approach the problem solving part of it. For unclear reasons you’ve decided that the solution to the black violence must be very violent. And that, in such a case, you’ve decided that tolerating the ever increasing violence FROM blacks is preferable.

So For example, tolerating 12 yo kids like Jonathan Foster being kidnapped by his black female neighbor and literally blow torched alive then dropped dead in a ditch on Christmas Eve is what you’ve decided is preferable. Why exactly?

All non-blacks have to do is pass policies (gradually if need be) that keep blacks the hell away from everyone else, only this time with the knowledge of experience that any alternative just means more dead white people (and every other kind of people).

Will this make blacks feel sad and leave them without a white hand to hold. Sure but so what. All races have had to sort out their destiny on there own. People seem to think that blacks should be an exception to that rule and that they are entitled to the assistance of others. Treating black people like they’re everyone’s children is not equality.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with where all of the global/historical empirical evidence points [...]

if you’re stuck on “poverty” being the cause, then here are some things to think about.

Why aren’t the Amish raping, murdering, robbing and assaulting like animals? Same question for whites during the Great Depression when they were dirt poor. Or the Japanese who came Straight out of internment camps dirt poor.

What about 'a mixture of reasons' do you not understand? Either way could you show me some of those empirical evidence? Here are some evidence for poverty being connected to crime:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/full-links-between-poverty-and-violent-crime

Also, during the time of the great depression crime rates soared

https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/crime-in-the-great-depression

The Amish are obviously nonviolent because they have a nonviolent culture, are very communally oriented and look out for eachother.

They are violent for the same reason they were building dung huts at the same time the Romans were building coliseums. They’re different. And that difference isn’t compatible with western living.

We Germans were building mud huts while the Romans were building colliseums. We seem to have improved a lot since then, why shouldn't black people be able to do the same?

It’s interesting how unseriously you approach the problem solving part of it. For unclear reasons you’ve decided that the solution to the black violence must be very violent.

Keep in mind that I think you misdiagnosed the cause for the problem. I don't think black people are inherently violent and I don't need to tolerate anyone getting murdered for my worldview to be consistent.

I put the question how you intend to solve this problem nonviolently, I didn't decide that it must be that way, but it is very hard for me to imagine how that would ever work. How do you want to enact policies that keep 40 million people hell away from everyone else in the US without resorting to violence? Logically deporting millions of people will very likely lead to extreme violence.

Also keep in mind that most black people aren't violent. Are you also trying to hold all men accountable for our comparatively high homicide rates? Men do after all commit 89.5% of the murders in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime#In_the_United_States

[–]NaughtyUnicorn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Why is it ok that the police kill so many people at all, regardless of skin color?

I have no problem with the police killing people who are trying to harm them, and in almost all of the cases where a suspect is killed it's because they were putting the officers in danger. There may have been a few accidents where the officers may have made poor choices, but I don't think that really happens enough to be making this big of a deal out of it. In those rare cases the families should sue and the officers should be punished, but riots? Come on man.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Idk here in Germany police killed 17 (14 shot and 3 through other means) people in 2019 while they seem to have killed 1099 (Edit: I think 604 shot and 495 other means, I had seemingly slightly conflicting data here) in the US. Something seems to be very wrong there. I don't know what it is, maybe your police doesn't try to de-escalate or americans are generally more dangerous or something in between but either way I can kind of understand people getting really upset about that, especially since very few police officers seem to ever go to jail because they killed someone.

[–]Velocity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There's an ethnic component in the US which you're not considering that pushes crime rates higher.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How do you explain that the police are also killing a lot of white people in the US?

[–]Velocity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

in the US. Something seems to be very wrong there. I don't know what it is, maybe your police doesn't try to de-escalate or americans are generally more dangerous

Yeah, a lot of whites are killed which falls in line being the majority of the population. Though disproportionately per capita, blacks engage in more violent crime and more likely than Whites or Hispanics to use a gun during that crime. Black males of crime age are 6% or less of the black population and they commit around 50% of crime.

[–]quickbeam 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Hope you'll join us in protesting police brutality then! I don't support police killing unarmed civilians.

[–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Police shot and killed twice as many whites as blacks last year.

What rebuttal are you trying to make? The US has over 6 times as many white people as black people. It sounds like your statistic is arguing against you.