George Floyd Body cam Video Shows he was saying "I can't Breath" way before being put on the Ground.

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[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I know that black people are on average more violent than white people in the US. I guess you want to tell me that the reason for that is, that black people are somehow naturally more violent (at least that's what I have seen several other posters here claim)? My question then would be: How are you supposed to 'solve' this problem without being extremely violent yourself (and therefore defeating your original point entirely).

I think there is a mixture of reasons responsible for racial violence patterns and none of them are genetic. One of them seems to be a glorification of violence in parts of black culture in the US (eg Hip Hop) another one is probably that black people are on average less wealthy and poor people tend to have to take more desperate measures to sustain themselves and a third one is probably that black people have less trust in the state and the police because of a history of systemic oppression by the US state, which brings me back to my main point in this discussion which you continuously ignore:

My focus was on police violence because the police are representatives of the state and its justice system. Because of this, the police has more responsibility than the average person to avoid unjust violence. If police officers are unjustly violent, people will lose trust in the police as an insititution, which will keep them from calling the police when crime occurs and make them seek justice via personal vendetta or other means, which will in turn beget more violence.

I agree that the problem of black crime should be solved. It would be a good idea to try to alleviate poverty in general, so that at least everyone has a preferable option to turning to crime, there should probably be some sort of educational initiatives to change violent cultures and the police should be reformed or replaced (but I haven't seen any convincing suggestions on how such a replacement should look like tbh). The police should be an institution which can generally be trusted to help people instead of harming them and which doesn't need to be feared if you aren't a violent criminal.

Putting the focus on race is not helpful (and I am well aware that BLM is doing that too and they are just as wrong to do that, as you are) because this will not solve any issues and only agitate people to hate eachother based on arbitrary categories.

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

police brutality

You know what else would be a problem? Pedophile teachers. But just like “pedophile teachers” isn’t an issue, neither is “police brutality.” The media propagandizing an issue does not mean there are actual numbers to support it.

What is the actual problem...the one based in reality??

https://mobile.twitter.com/Laurale71816951/status/1276269703317598208

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1283325342699028482

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1283303273068244993

but why?

As for “why?” Personally, I agree with where all of the global/historical empirical evidence points and what genius Nobel prize winner, James Watson, asserts to be true - genetics - but the more important question is “Who cares?” If blacks want to participate in society, then “why” is THEIR problem to solve.

But for conversation, if you’re stuck on “poverty” being the cause, then here are some things to think about.

Why aren’t the Amish raping, murdering, robbing and assaulting like animals? Same question for whites during the Great Depression when they were dirt poor. Or the Japanese who came Straight out of internment camps dirt poor.

Do you know that the standard of living for the average American welfare recipient is considered “middle class” for half the globe? Is that middle class acting like blacks do?

They are violent for the same reason they were building dung huts at the same time the Romans were building coliseums. They’re different. And that difference isn’t compatible with western living.

solution

It’s interesting how unseriously you approach the problem solving part of it. For unclear reasons you’ve decided that the solution to the black violence must be very violent. And that, in such a case, you’ve decided that tolerating the ever increasing violence FROM blacks is preferable.

So For example, tolerating 12 yo kids like Jonathan Foster being kidnapped by his black female neighbor and literally blow torched alive then dropped dead in a ditch on Christmas Eve is what you’ve decided is preferable. Why exactly?

All non-blacks have to do is pass policies (gradually if need be) that keep blacks the hell away from everyone else, only this time with the knowledge of experience that any alternative just means more dead white people (and every other kind of people).

Will this make blacks feel sad and leave them without a white hand to hold. Sure but so what. All races have had to sort out their destiny on there own. People seem to think that blacks should be an exception to that rule and that they are entitled to the assistance of others. Treating black people like they’re everyone’s children is not equality.

[–]Tarsius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with where all of the global/historical empirical evidence points [...]

if you’re stuck on “poverty” being the cause, then here are some things to think about.

Why aren’t the Amish raping, murdering, robbing and assaulting like animals? Same question for whites during the Great Depression when they were dirt poor. Or the Japanese who came Straight out of internment camps dirt poor.

What about 'a mixture of reasons' do you not understand? Either way could you show me some of those empirical evidence? Here are some evidence for poverty being connected to crime:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/full-links-between-poverty-and-violent-crime

Also, during the time of the great depression crime rates soared

https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/crime-in-the-great-depression

The Amish are obviously nonviolent because they have a nonviolent culture, are very communally oriented and look out for eachother.

They are violent for the same reason they were building dung huts at the same time the Romans were building coliseums. They’re different. And that difference isn’t compatible with western living.

We Germans were building mud huts while the Romans were building colliseums. We seem to have improved a lot since then, why shouldn't black people be able to do the same?

It’s interesting how unseriously you approach the problem solving part of it. For unclear reasons you’ve decided that the solution to the black violence must be very violent.

Keep in mind that I think you misdiagnosed the cause for the problem. I don't think black people are inherently violent and I don't need to tolerate anyone getting murdered for my worldview to be consistent.

I put the question how you intend to solve this problem nonviolently, I didn't decide that it must be that way, but it is very hard for me to imagine how that would ever work. How do you want to enact policies that keep 40 million people hell away from everyone else in the US without resorting to violence? Logically deporting millions of people will very likely lead to extreme violence.

Also keep in mind that most black people aren't violent. Are you also trying to hold all men accountable for our comparatively high homicide rates? Men do after all commit 89.5% of the murders in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime#In_the_United_States

[–]justjoggin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s Amish culture

Correct. Humans can abstain from raping and murdering despite being “poor.”

I don't need to tolerate anyone getting murdered for my worldview to be consistent.

By your own logic, you do. Every single black crime like in the links above that takes place every single day until that magical moment when blacks are no longer “poor” (and therefore violent, according to you). Unless you’re saying you actually don’t care about black on everyone violence?

Great Depression

Even with the increase in mafia violence due to prohibition, whites during the Great Depression were nothing near, say the raping, murdering animal blacks in Chicago (or almost any predominantly black area in Western civilization) who have a much higher standard of living now than whites did then.

Germans were building mud huts while the Romans were building colliseums.

I misspoke. I meant blacks today, who weren’t blessed by white oppression, are still living in dung huts today (and practicing slavery for that matter) when whites were building coliseums 2000 years ago. Yes. Perhaps they’re genetically capable. And perhaps Whites are capable of being better than blacks at basketball and Asians are capable of being taller. Someday. Maybe. But policies are for today. Not a million years from now.

And there’s little to no evidence indicating that blacks can collectively even maintain much less build from scratch anything remotely resembling the West or the Far East. Best I could come up with is Nigeria. But that’s another conversation.

why shouldn't black people be able to do the same?

The question is, why should Whites have to have anything to do with that, especially in the form of suffering death, rape, assault, theft community blight, welfare drain, reduction of standards, etc while blacks take a stab at being civilized. Again, they’re not children. Whites could just say no and be fine.

How do you want to enact policies that keep 40 million people hell away from everyone else in the US without resorting to violence?

The same way we keep millions of drunk drivers off the road or from driving over the speed limit. Policy. It’s already been done. Segregation policies were the norm for 100 years. Whites were safe and happy. Blacks didn’t fit in. Now their unhappiness has simply been transferred to whites and called progress while Tyler Wingate’s skull is being stomped in by an African, and Harvard students seriously debate over whether “whites should kill themselves due to ‘privilege’.”

Logically deporting millions of people will very likely lead to extreme violence.

Deport is your word. But if, hypothetically that was necessary. It’s nice to see you’re still choosing the “Black violence on everyone” option (that is, until the day they’re no longer poor). You sound like you would have been a great Indian warrior selling out your tribe to the white man, just because. Very noble.

Also keep in mind that most black people aren't violent.

Most drunk drivers make it home safe. Still have a policy against it, and for good reason. Blacks are the drunk drivers of race.

Also, most cops aren’t abusive. Should we defund blacks?

Are you also trying to hold all men accountable for our comparatively high homicide rates?

Men are necessary.

So what’s your solution to hopefully minimize the death and destruction that black people are disproportionately causing until that time comes that blacks are sufficiently “not poor” and violent?