Princeton students end hunger strike due to hunger, 'health concerns' after 10 days

submitted by P-38lightning from thepostmillennial.com

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[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Does everyone lead the same life before they reach university?

Are there no immigrants at university, or people with family abroad?

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No, but these are pointless questions. Does everyone visit Palestine before university?
My point stands true for the majority. You could pick just about any statement that holds true for the majority and cherry pick specific circumstances under which there are outliers. It doesn't prove the rule at all.

Did you have a greater point you wanted to make?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No, but these are pointless questions.

The point of the questions is question your assumption that they've never been to Palestine.

Does everyone visit Palestine before university?

No. We're talking about the 17 students who were on the hunger strike.

My point stands true for the majority.

How many of the 17 do you claim have never been to, and will never go to Palestine?

Did you have a greater point you wanted to make?

You're making up stuff you don't know about these students? Why?

The usual reason people make stuff up is because the argument they want to make is fallacious. That's probably the case here.

So why do you want to claim that they don't understand the cause? What is your understanding of the cause? Why do you find other understandings of it so objectionable you have to make up stuff about them?

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The point of the questions is question your assumption that they've never been to Palestine.

There's no point questioning the assumption. As I pointed out, it's a safe one. If you plucked 100 students from the universities all across the world, I would happily wager that 0% of them have been to Palestine. It's not a common event, most students can barely afford a trip to Europe on a gap year to "Find Themselves", and of the ones who can afford to travel, very few people are picking Palestine. On the off chance you found one who had been, all you'd be doing is showing, as I pointed out, that outliers in data exist. All you're doing is trying to pick apart a simple, obvious statement in an effort to diminish an overall point, and it isn't working.

No. We're talking about the 17 students who were on the hunger strike.

Good, so we're agreed? The chances are ridiculously slim.

You're making up stuff you don't know about these students? Why?

I haven't made up anything about them. I've stated a simple, numerical fact: In any university, the odds that these kids have been to Palestine is so slim that I feel comfortable saying: "They haven't been to Palestine" and, if any of them had, it would be so few that all it would do is prove that in any point of data there's always some floating incident that sits on the outside of the mean. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge to know that these student protests are mostly performative. They are people who are swayed by the latest, popular trends and causes and flock to things that make them appear righteous.

The usual reason people make stuff up is because the argument they want to make is fallacious. That's probably the case here.

Now the tables are turned: How do you know I'm wrong? How do you know I'm making it up? It seems very reasonable to say that very few people from the US are visiting Palestine before their 30th birthday. Something like 4 million people visit Palestine each year in a world with over 7 billion people. That means 0.05% of the world population visits there each year, and that's on the assumption that none of those are people repeating the trip for any number of reasons. Given the most common and popular places to visit for younger people doesn't include Palestine, and given that it's often a dangerous place, you tell me why you'd assume I'm making it up, as opposed to being simply reasonable?

So with the understanding that all odds are in favour of these people never having been to Palestine, why would you say that "Most people make stuff up because they want to make a fallacious argument"? and assume that's probably the case here? Do you know me personally? Have we talked about this subject before?...

... Or were you just making a reasonable assumption based on what you know to be true?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If you plucked 100 students from the universities all across the world, I would happily wager that 0% of them have been to Palestine.

These aren't plucked randomly. They're the ones hunger striking in support of the protesters who have been arrested.

They're the 13 most likely to have ties to palestine in the entire campus.

I haven't made up anything about them.

Yes you did. You don't know that they've never been to palestine, and you can't know that they're never going to go.

I've stated a simple, numerical fact: In any university, the odds that these kids have been to Palestine is so slim that I feel comfortable saying: "They haven't been to Palestine"

No. You said that they have been and are never going to go to palestine.

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These aren't plucked randomly. They're the ones hunger striking in support of the protesters who have been arrested. They're the 13 most likely to have ties to palestine in the entire campus.

No, I think that's optimistic. That's like saying that the Black Lives Matter protestors would all, most likely, have ties to George Floyd or the black community. With protests, especially on university campuses, it's just as often students wanting to skip classes, students wanting attention, students who have no idea what's actually happening and just like the most popular or unpopular causes. There's even videos of people at these kinds of protests being interviewed and having no real idea what's happening... Though, admittedly, those are viewed and popular Because of their absurdity.

Yes you did. You don't know that they've never been to palestine, and you can't know that they're never going to go.

No, I didn't. I made a guess based on the most reasonable assumption possible. You just want to make it seem like the statement needs to be a dissertation with sources in order to be most likely true, as opposed to a reasonable thing to assume in casual conversation.

No. You said that they have been and are never going to go to palestine.

Now you're attempting semantics and sophism. If you can't read or hear something without taking only the most literal interpretation, you're acting on bad faith or you're struggling through life. I don't need to prove the absolute validity of every statement in order to speak it - I might tell you the sun will rise tomorrow. You're welcome to demand I produce actual evidence beyond: "Well, it always does", but it's not required. This isn't a court of law.

Hopefully that's enough, because while I love a good sealion like anyone else, I think we've reached the end of the conversation... Which I will assume you agree because when I sealioned back at you to show the worthlessness of these kinds of questions, you ignored them.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's like saying that the Black Lives Matter protestors would all, most likely, have ties to George Floyd or the black community.

That they're more likely to have ties to the black community than people who don't support BLM.

With protests, especially on university campuses, it's just as often students wanting to skip classes, students wanting attention, students who have no idea what's actually happening and just like the most popular or unpopular causes.

I see you've never been to university.

They wouldn't be skipping lectures, or other contact hours. Stanford University isn't cheap.

And they don't call them "classes".

If you can't read or hear something without taking only the most literal interpretation, you're acting on bad faith or you're struggling through life.

I see you want to walk back part of your claims. What's a statement that truly describes your position now?