The Western Democratic Idea has been de-legitimized once and for all

submitted by VarangianRasputin from self.debatealtright

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[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

You're using the language of our enemies. The West doesn't have democracy, not even close. We have plutocracy, because that's what liberal "democracy" really is. Liberalism - through its bourgeois parliaments - will always lead to plutocracy. The will of the people doesn't matter. Our so-called representatives almost never enact what we actually want. The only way to get what we want is either through direct democracy - by plebiscites and sortition - or by putting a strongman in power who will do what we want, like the fascists did. Those are the only two ways to get real democracy. A combination of the two is the most likely - and the best - outcome in my opinion. The only question is, will it require a revolution?

[–]VarangianRasputin[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The West doesn't have democracy, not even close. We have plutocracy, because that's what liberal "democracy" really is. Liberalism - through its bourgeois parliaments - will always lead to plutocracy.

All that is correct, but I was talking about the Democratic Ideal as the average Joe understands it.

The only question is, will it require a revolution?

Depends how you define Revolution. The Russian Revolution, despite much romantic artwork to the contrary, was really just a bunch of militias and pissed off workers seizing control of key buildings with very little, if any resistance. I'd imagine that when the time comes to seize power, it will go something like that, but we've still got our ways to go to that right now.

Might sound weird to use the Russian Revolution as an example, but to be honest, that's how a revolution should go. A literal textbook example. No blood, just determination, and the Will-To-Power.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

All that is correct, but I was talking about the Democratic Ideal as the average Joe understands it.

The average Joe knows it's bullshit, which is why so many of them don't even vote.

The Russian Revolution, despite much romantic artwork to the contrary, was really just a bunch of militias and pissed off workers seizing control of key buildings with very little, if any resistance.

Every revolution is like that. There's no real difference between a revolution or a coup apart from intense energy among a certain percentage of the masses.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The average Joe knows it's bullshit, which is why so many of them don't even vote.

No they don't. The voting turnout for the 2020 US election was the highest it has been in a century with 66.2% of the voting eligible population that voted. This is really just wishful thinking if you believe the average Joe thinks it's bullshit.

The plutocracy clearly has more power than the people's will, but the people still have some say.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you combine half the electorate - who have now lost all trust in the electoral system - with that 33.8% you get a majority.

[–]VarangianRasputin[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

with that 33.8% you get a majority.

I hate to jump back in, genuinely, but that kind of proves my point. Democracy as an idea has been killed. At the very least, the seeds of doubt have been planted, and that's all it takes. I'm not overly bothered how many people have taken part, I'm interested in that group that have lost faith.