Majority of gender-confused children grow out of it by adulthood: Netherlands study

submitted by noshore4me from humanevents.com

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[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

That all matches my experience, yeah. Adolescence is confusing.

But:

Only a small minority, approximately 2 percent of respondents, reported feeling less comfortable with their gender than before.

Well, that's one in fifty people, which is a small proportion in relative terms, but also means there are a large number of people like this in absolute terms.

Some liberals want you to believe that gender dysphoria is common and we've just been hiding it for centuries. Some conservatives want you to believe that gender dysphoria barely exists and that kids are being brainwashed into thinking they have an imaginary condition.

The truth is, as it almost always is, somewhere in the middle.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

True, but as you said, "adolescence is confusing." What makes it even more confusing is activists, politicians, corporations and media telling you you need to make that life-altering choice IMMEDIATELY! Letting biology run its course and allowing children the space to figure out who they are without rushing is the key. Sure, there will still be trans people, they've been around for thousands of years, but people can wait until the dust of childhood/adolescence settles to resort to drastic measures.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Activists should be aiming for the message that the life-altering choice should be allowed if the child, parents, and doctor are all certain it's the right call.

But, yeah, sometimes they overshoot. Sometimes their message more closely resembles "trans is virtue, cis is bigotry, and doctors are standing by to help you make your choice."

I do not believe the government should ban gender-affirming care for children. It's government overreach. Politicians shouldn't be practicing medicine. Sure, doctors get it wrong sometimes, but politicians get it wrong way more often.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

if the child, parents, and doctor are all certain it's the right call.

No one can be certain that it is the right call because no one can distinguish the 90% of children who grow out of it from the 10% who don't. What is certain is that there is a 90% chance to be right if you choose to allow normal development and non affirming therapy.

Anyone opting for the 10% chance to be right clearly has an agenda that is not in the interest of the child.

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

No one can be certain that it is the right call because no one can distinguish the 90% of children who grow out of it from the 10% who don't.

Of course you can, if you use your own mind instead of relying on your partisan ideology.

If your kid spontaneously says "I'm a girl, not a boy" at age three and consistently believes that for seven straight years, and breaks into tears when people call them a boy, medical intervention is probably warranted.

If your kid comes home and says "My friend Missive is an enby and I think they're so cool and I think I want to be non-binary too and I want to take hormones," you say "How about you just express yourself with fashion until you're eighteen."

I mean, come on. A little critical thinking here.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

and breaks into tears when people call them a boy,

There is absolutely zero evidence that this is how it works. There is absolutely zero evidence that the 90% of kids who grow out of it are less sure, or less emotional about it. This is something you pulled out of your ass to desperately cling to your ideology. This is not critical thinking, it is pulling excuses out of your ass.

If you can design a study and prove that you can consistently identify the 10% then I will agree that those 10% should be allowed medical intervention. But not on the basis that you pulled some scenario out of your ass and insist it is true because you are just oh so smart and everyone else is a biased dumb dumb.

Until there is a real way to distinguish the only moral course of action is provide non affirming therapy and allow natural puberty.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There is absolutely zero evidence that this is how it works.

Of course there is. There are plenty of case studies on children with lifelong gender dysphoria, and there's plenty of evidence of tweens being influenced by their friends to gender-bend.

And a reasonable, non-partisan person can tell the difference.

Only one of us is "desperately clinging to ideology" by insisting on an absolutist policy that doesn't take circumstance or context into account. And it isn't me.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There are plenty of case studies on children with lifelong gender dysphoria,

Your claim is that you can distinguish which kids will grow out of gender dysphoria and which won't by how emotional they are about being "misgendered". There are no studies about that. You are lying. There is not even a valid way to objectively measure how "sure" someone is or how emotional they are.

You can't just make up any claim that you want and then pretend there is evidence for your bullshit claim because "trans studied exist". That is fucking nuts.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are case studies on people with lifelong gender dysphoria, which show how some people are certain of their transgender status from pretty much the time they can form words..

I'm getting the sense that what you're really trying to say is "there is no objective, one-hundred percent reliable assay for whether someone will grow out of childhood gender dysphoria."

That, of course, is true. But the perfect is the enemy of the good. The "always assume they'll grow out of it" policy is going to do harm to 10% of patients.

I am quite sure we can do better than that by simply allowing parents and doctors to use their discretion.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"there is no objective, one-hundred percent reliable assay

There is nothing with any efficacy. Your claim that you can tell is bullshit. You can't. No one can. None of the studies shows that you can.

If you or anyone had anything like that with any efficacy at all it would be getting used. Instead you are making baseless claims that you can tell with zero evidence, trying to pass of "hur dur trans exist" as evidence. It is not.

allowing parents and doctors to use their discretion.

They can't tell and if they could they would be treating 90% of their patients with non affirming therapy and advising them not to do anything until after puberty. That is not what is happening.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If your kid spontaneously says "I'm a girl, not a boy" at age three

My kid announced that he's a Tyrannosaurus Rex so now I'm looking for a doctor to cut off his arms and implant a tail.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not 100% convinced than any sort of so-called "sex reassignment" is genuinely the best treatment even for severe gender dysphoria, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for adults. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if doctors in the future look back at sex reassignment with the same horror we look at Victorian-era doctors who removed the clitorises of young girls and women to stop them masturbating.

People don't always have a privileged understanding of their own mental state. We all know people who are desperately unhappy, and they think they know why they are unhappy but they are always wrong. I'll be happy if only I change my job. I'll be happy if only I get a boy/girl friend or get married. I'll be happy once I have kids. Or grandkids. I'll be happy if I move to another city. I'll be happy if I could only afford that car. I'll be happy if only ... if only ... if only ...

This is probably why, even before the massive escalation of "transgender" since the mid 2010s, the effectiveness of sex reassignment for ending the depression and suicidal ideation related to sex dysphoria was not great. Sometimes it helps, but often not.