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Museum reclassifies Roman emperor as trans woman(bbc.co.uk)

50 points49 points52 points submitted by artetolife
all 34 comments

clownworlddropout 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun 5 months ago

See guys? Preferred pronouns aren't a new thing! Totally not a new made-up bullshit thing guys! 🙄

Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun 5 months ago

Now now let's not impose the colonizer anglo pronouns on this proud oppressed latin person or emperor.

Let's see what his actual preferred pronouns would have been in Latin.

Oh would you look at that Latin didn't have third person personal pronouns. Oops.

ID10T 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Is there an official logical fallacy for arguing that some type of nonsense is legit because people believed in it a long time ago?

clownworlddropout 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun 5 months ago

Argumentum ad antiquitatem: an appeal to antiquity

ID10T 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun 5 months ago

Thanks! I literally just looked that up. I love a good logical fallacy.

AriShekelsteinDDS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Makes you wonder what else in human history has been rewritten to suit the bad intentions of certain groups.

jet199 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Pretty much all of it

xoenix 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

If you read about this guy it's like they put one a criminally psychopathic AGP in charge, and he was such a bad emperor that they had to assassinate him.

Interestingly, once he was bumped off, the Roman senate banned women from participating. Maybe they got tired of debates like this.

ClassroomPast6178 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Was he the emperor who married a Vestal Virgin and was whacked by his own praetorian guards?

slavdude0 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

Yep. Amazing advertisement for troons LMAO.

LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

You know you've fucked up big when the guys responsible for keeping you from getting taken out are the ones doing the job of removing you.

ClassroomPast6178 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Always give a decent Christmas bonus…especially to the any of your employees with the weapons or who cook your food, make your bed, play with your peepee, shave you, wash you, drive you or chase the monster from under your bed. It’s a rule I live by.

cephyrious 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

To be fair, that emperor sounds exactly like some of the troons they are willing to use she/her for today, so at least it is consistent.

OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

if it were possible, Dylan Mulvaney would have all of Mulvaney's critics smothered in rose petals on live TV

Adventurous_Ad6212 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

Lol you know what else Roman emperors had a problem with insanity too.

alladd 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Retconning a historically notorious pervert into a troon seems like the kind of thing TERFs would do as an ironic insult, but...nope, they're doing it to themselves.

Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Well they are desperate to show historical examples that "trans people have always existed".

It's really just trying to make history fit with modern labeling systems. The idea that "this guy was born a man but actually was always a woman" wouldn't have had a term or been what people in antiquity thought about. But sure, man who dresses and acts like a woman, that concept exists, even the old testament of the bible mentions it in levitical law as something that is prohibited so it obviously was common enough they had to write down a law about it.

Problem with probing the historical record to show how this was "normal" though is that writing was expensive and they're only going to bother to mention specific people when they are behaving badly.

alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Is there a term for the fallacy of perpetually thinking the modern era is so much more evolved and self-aware than the past? People do this shit at literally any metric. Like the idea that Marsha P. Johnston just didn't know what to call himself because there was no truscum Tumblr posts around in the 80s to gaslight him is so funny to me.

ID10T 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Lol next they'll be saying Hitler was a stunning and brave wahmen.

LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

Well, there were claims he had dysphoria...which, while this means he was truscum and thus Hitler was literally Hitler, also means she was a trans kween who killed six million cissie Jews, so she also supported Palestine. Support Hitler or you're literally Hitler, shitlord!

SheKnowsWhatAllKnow 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun 5 months ago

Destroy the memories of all self-deifiers by the War of Mars with the Magic of Saturn at Her Divinity's Will.

This is all over. It's all now madness and chaos. There is no history anymore.

All love & attribution to Her Divinity, and all shall obey Her Command, forever. 

Γῆ

hfxB0oyADon't piss on my head & tell me it's raining. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Tells us a lot more about our current age than it does about the age this guy lived in.

ClassroomPast6178 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

This is a really minor, regional museum. It means nothing except that their curator is a cunt.

Haylstorm 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Good publicity stunt though. People have now heard of it. If you believe no publicity is bad publicity it's effective marketing I guess.

Oyveygoyim 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Don't believe the jew lies.

OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

and poor Sporus

Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, better known as Elagabalus, ruled the Roman empire for just four years from 218AD to his assassination, aged 18, in 222AD

Wtf? Ok I'm not a history major or anything but I've literally never heard Marcus Aurelius referred to as "Elagabalus". If he was better known as that name i would assume a layman like me would recognize that name first.

Cassius Dio, a senator and contemporary of Elagabalus, writes in his historical chronicles that the emperor was married five times - four times to women, and once to Hiercoles, a former slave and chariot driver. -- In this final marriage, Dio writes that the emperor "was bestowed in marriage and was termed wife, mistress and queen".

Dr Shushma Malik, a Cambridge university classics professor, told the BBC: "The historians we use to try and understand the life of Elagabalus are extremely hostile towards him, and therefore cannot be taken at face value. We don't have any direct evidence from Elagabalus himself of his own words. --- "There are many examples in Roman literature of times where effeminate language and words were used as a way of criticising or weakening a political figure. -- "References to Elagabalus wearing makeup, wigs and removing body hair may have been written in order to undermine the unpopular emperor."

Ok well that seems like an extremely straight forward explanation.

However, councillor Keith Hoskins, executive member for Enterprise and Arts at North Herts Council, said texts such as Dio's provide evidence "that Elagabalus most definitely preferred the 'she' pronoun and as such this is something we reflect when discussing her in contemporary times, as we believe is standard practice elsewhere". --- "We know that Elagabalus identified as a woman and was explicit about which pronouns to use, which shows that pronouns are not a new thing," he added.

Bitch, what? What do you mean you know? It sounds like you are basing this off of hostile writings and what happened to "never assume someone's gender identity" ... ???

ClassroomPast6178 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Ok I'm not a history major or anything but I've literally never heard Marcus Aurelius referred to as "Elagabalus".

Different emperor.

The Marcus Aurelius you’re thinking of, the stoic philosopher, was Roman emperor about 40 years before Elagabalus.

Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Lol thanks. I guess it would have been nice if they went through other parts of history in public schools. All I got was various aspects of whitewashed American history. In college I took a history class based around ancient Egypt but i only needed 1 semester of that. Everything else about the roman empire i probably picked up on my own time. Actually thinking back, my public school history classes in the 80s and 90s were super packed with pro American propaganda. Even world history years were focused on WW1 and 2 and they only talked about things directly related to the US. I always found history and politics to be incredibly boring but now i know so much more than an average person and i think it's because the version of history they allowed us to see was so whitewashed and boring that it made real life seem also boring and I ended up going into science. Real life history is actually incredibly interesting.

Wanderingthehalls 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

"Bitch, what? What do you mean you know?"

I'm sensing Russell T Davies is penning a fun new episode of Doctor Who as we speak!

MagicMike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

He’d have been a great Reddit mod.

IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Bless his heart.

catfishrising 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

Elagabalus was insane and perverted, no news there.

shadeviking 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 5 months ago

A museum is to relabel its display about a Roman emperor after concluding that he was in fact a trans woman.

He became an increasingly controversial figure over his short reign, developing a reputation for sexual promiscuity.

There it is.