Meanwhile on reddit, a US psychiatrist working with children for more than a decade questions the evidence for gender-affirming care. The post is still up a day later, with Mod support.

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[–]Femaleisnthateful 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Glad to see this.

The response from the transman rm_goldman is a wild read. Got off hormones to try and get pregnant. Told her doctor she loves her body but society tells her she can't have a beard and boobs, so she needs to get her boobs amputated. No one questioned if it wouldn't be safer to shave the beard. Literally embodying every criticism of trans 'medicine' but totally oblivious. And she's a medical resident.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I just do not understand the entire concept of the transman who wants to get pregnant. If you were a man inside, you wouldn’t have any interest in having a baby because men don’t have babies, never have, never will. It’s literal proof that you are not a man.

I will forgive the transman who wants to get pregnant as I would forgive anyone else in the grip of delusional thinking for whatever their delusion was causing them to believe, they are not in control of the delusion.

The doctors, psychologists, nurses, lobbyists, politicians, social media influencers, journalists, “allies”, groomers, and yes, even well-meaning bystanders, who continue to support and reinforce the delusional belief that you can exist in a state where you are not the sex corresponding to the reproductive assembly, functional, dysfunctional or nonfunctional, that you possess, should be sewn in a sack and thrown off a cliff.

The time for understanding has now past. The lack of evidence supporting anything in the field of transgender medicine, beyond watchful waiting and talk therapy, is glaring and has been glaring for almost two years.

[–]M1GarandDad 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And then they claim that official records accurately describing them as "mother", meaning "the parent who was pregnant", causes them such intense gender dysphoria that they WILL commit suicide. The smallest lapse in external validation of their gender identity is a matter of life or death, but nine months of the most primal, visceral, unambiguous reminder of their femaleness is just fine!

It's insultingly obvious they don't have dysphoria from their bodies, they have it from the bullshit social construct of femininity or not at all.

[–]The_Best_Yak_Ever 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s the ability to get off on creating diametrically opposed rules that they impose on everyone else, while simultaneously using depraved emotional abuse to coerce normal people into compliance. You have to abide by my linguistic demands, no matter how ridiculous, or else somehow I’m responsible for you hurting yourself?

Yeah, no. One, I don’t owe anyone validation and frankly, because my goodwill has been abused by the activist types, I’m way less likely to even be polite about it. And two, once I get emotionally manipulated, I don’t particularly care what you choose to do to yourself. And three, I doubt they’ll follow through anyway.

[–]bucetao6969Ace Spectrum 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's why there are so many "men can get pregnant" media and that whole "miracle of male birth" fiasco.

They went through the transition. But they still want the baby. They don't like the rules so they want those rules changed.

[–]brimshaeBased Woodchipper Merchant 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

transman

What a weird way to spell "woman".

[–]LyingSpirit472 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't forget the catch-22 there of: "there's plenty of fat men who have boobs and a beard out there. Since it's possible for a man to have a beard and boobs, this is now cosmetic surgery. If we grant you have the right to be a man, you may not get to be a HOT man. Pay out of pocket."

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

(((Goldman))) at it again

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

lol i thought the whole point was being yourself despite society not accepting you, now she's saying she cut her tits off because she didn't want to be judged by other people

[–]xoenix 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well that's one small step for Reddit. Now we just need them to start allowing posts and comments critical of:

  • sex is not binary
  • misgendering = "hate speech"
  • men invading women's bathrooms
  • men invading women's sports
  • men in women's prisons
  • applying "cis" to humans
  • using labels like bleeders, chest feeders, people with penises or uteruses,
  • AMAB, AFAB
  • celebrating womanface
  • porn in school libraries
  • teaching gender confusion to kids
  • outcomes of sex change surgeries
  • transhumanist billionaires and the NGOs they fund
  • queer re-definitions of homo and heterosexuality
  • denying the existence of AGPs
  • violent TRA behaviour
  • Maoist cancellation of critics
  • etc., etc., etc.

[–]bife_de_lomo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, that would be nice!

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maoist cancellation of critics

This

[–]ClassroomPast6178 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I considered myself moderate on these issues. Every field of medicine faces a tradeoff between overtreatment and undertreatment, and I shared the worries of some of my more trans-affirming colleagues that many of these kids were at high risk for suicide if not given the treatment they wanted. Even if you attribute the increase in trans-identification among teens to merely a social fad, it was a social fad with real dangers. If an influencer or spiritual guru on social media was convincing teens that evil spirits could reside in their left ring finger, and they needed to amputate this finger or consider suicide, the ethical argument could be made that providing these finger amputations was a medically appropriate trade of morbidity for mortality. "How many regretted hormonal treatments, breast surgeries, or (in our hypothetical) lost ring fingers are worth one life saved from suicide?" is a reasonable question, even if you are skeptical of the underlying diagnosis.

I have real issues with this paragraph. The rest of the post seemed well argued but this is some weirdness.

Is this Psychiatrist really saying they could envisage an ethically sound argument for cutting off the finger of children convinced by a social media guru that the said appendage contained evil spirits and not doing so had a non-zero risk the child committed suicide?

What?

Just fucking what?

This is insane.

A child comes to you claiming that their finger has evil spirits in it and needs to be amputated or they will kill themselves and you think “hmmm, maybe there’s an ethical argument for doing so”?

Fuck off.

This is how the medical troonery got started. “Oh noes, Frank says he’s going to kill himself if we don’t turn him into Francesca, we better do it!”

Fuck that. There’s no ethical argument to be made for cutting the fingers off children to rid them of the evil spirits they have been convinced are residing there. The only ethical treatment is to decondition them from their ridiculous belief and possibly to sew the social media influencer in a sack and throw them off a cliff into the sea.

Medical ethics, as Peter Singer is well-known to argue, often turns out seemingly awful suggestions (post-birth abortions for severely disabled babies being the classic example) but I don’t think cutting the fingers off children for a belief in evil spirits would ever be seriously considered to have a potential justification (unless evil spirits were conclusively shown to exist, beyond religious belief and even then, getting an exorcist involved might be a better option…in a world with real evil spirits, exorcists would probably be more effective than antidepressants and psychiatrists!).

[–]LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

While it seems weird, I can somehow see the point for it. If we already know there's examples of gender identity teachers who flat-out say to children already "...you don't care about gender identity yet, you just want to go watch Paw Patrol? Great. You're PawPatrol-gender, and that means you're the most special person in the entire world, oh and the fact I just told you this also means you eventually committing suicide is an inescapable fate foretold by the stars in the sky...but MAYBE if everyone in the world does exactly what you want forever, you might be able to push it back little by little." That sounds pretty close to it.

[–]YJaewedwqewq 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In the provided example the obvious solution involves "amputating" the influencer or spiritual guru. How a psychologist can say that entertaining delusions of the naïve and manipulated is ethically sound is beyond me, but then again, psychology is largely pseudoscience and politics anyway.

While this individual is certainly making steps (not only for himself but for Plebbit as a whole, apparently), this is FAR from good enough.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It’s a psychiatrist not psychologist.

It’s a totally weird thing to suggest that you can make a medical ethics argument in favour of amputating a healthy appendage in a child who has clearly succumbed to a social contagion or in fact, in this hypothetical, straight-up grooming.

Before you go cutting off healthy fingers, maybe section the child (involuntary psychiatric hold) and hold them for psychiatric observation, with restraints if necessary. Their adult-self will thank you for saving their finger.

[–]YJaewedwqewq 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Before you go cutting off healthy fingers, maybe section the child (involuntary psychiatric hold) and hold them for psychiatric observation, with restraints if necessary. Their adult-self will thank you for saving their finger.

Exactly, and one would think that would be common sense, but apparently just like FDA testing and guidelines, the medical industry can ignore ethics whenever it wants extra profits.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're misunderstanding. He is drawing a comparison by example to demonstrate how trans ideology is harmful.

He's saying it would be obvious to everyone the dangers of such a social trend if it concerned fingers and "spirits", yet a similarly ridiculous standard of taking someone at their word and granting them mutilating surgery is in place currently for trans people.

You're reaching the same conclusion as him. "This is how the medical troonery got started." Yes, exactly.

[–]bife_de_lomo[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is a really good breakdown of the concerns within psychiatry itself, including a deep-dive into the numbers. It supports all we've been saying for years.

Also, from the comments:

To be blunt, psychiatry has a checkered history of too hastily adopting novel treatments without adequate study. Compassion for gender dysphoric individuals is important. Recommending irreversible medical interventions in vulnerable populations should require definitive, or at the very least probabilistic, proof of long-term benefit and minimal harm. Currently, that proof does not exist.

[–]OuroborosTheory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

especially if it looks "sciencey" or "medical," that's why they jumped so fast at lobotomy, insulin coma therapy, or treating meds like "happy pills"--anything to say "see? we made it as a discipline, it's not just sitting on couches talking about how nasty yo momma was"

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

reads like an Alone post.