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Biden says Russia is clearly 'losing the war in IRAQ'
submitted 10 months ago by [deleted] from dailymail.co.uk
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[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (8 children)
Your argument in a nutshell: "The election of Barrack Obama proves that there are no racists in the USA -- or at least no broad culture of racism or systematic racism."
there's no broad culture of antisemitism in Ukraine
Oh please. Antisemitism is widespread across eastern Europe including Ukraine. Quote:
Jew-hatred in Ukraine declined from a record 46% index score in 2019 to 29% in 2023, “potentially driven in part by the popularity of the Jewish president, Volodymyr Zelensky, whose approval ratings have risen dramatically over the last few years in response to his defiance in the face of Russian military attacks,” per an ADL release.
So in 2019, the year of Zelensky's electoral victory, 46% of Ukrainians were described as "Jew-haters" by the ADL.
In any case, Ukrainian neo-Nazi hatred of Jews is probably a secondary concern to Putin than their hatred of Russians.
that would support the claim that "Ukrainians are Nazis".
If I meet anyone who believes that all Ukrainians are Nazis, I'll be sure to mention that Zelensky is a Jew to them.
By the way: history is more complicated than the cartoon version most people learn. Even the original Nazis were complicated. Around 150,000 of men of Jewish descent, including practicing Jews, fought for Nazi Germany. If Jews could fight for the Nazis, Nazis can vote for a Jewish president.
[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (7 children)
"The election of Barrack Obama proves that there are no racists in the USA
I didn't say that there were no neo nazis in Ukraine. I said that there were few. And it follows that Putin's claim that he is invading to "de-nazify Ukraine" is obviously bullshit. He's invading because the Ukrainian people what the economic freedom of being closer to Europe, and that doesn't mesh with his viscous expansionist ideals.
-- or at least no broad culture of racism or systematic racism."
That's true. Most voters voted for a great politician and great orator. And it didn't detract from that that he was black.
Somebody's figures are wrong. 70% of those people voted for a Jew in the final round of the election.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago* (6 children)
I said that there were few. And it follows that Putin's claim that he is invading to "de-nazify Ukraine" is obviously bullshit.
No, that doesn't follow, not by any form of logic or sense. The absolute number of nazis does not matter one jot. What matters is their position of influence and ability to wield power.
If there were ten million nazis rotting in Ukrainian prisons, never to be released, they would have no power and no influence and nobody would care about them.
If there was one nazi in Ukraine but he was worshipped as Absolute God-Monarch whose every word was law and could not be questioned or gain-stayed, then everyone would care.
He's invading because the Ukrainian people what the economic freedom of being closer to Europe, and that doesn't mesh with his viscous expansionist ideals.
"They hate our freedoms!!! Putin is the next Hitler and wants to conquer the world!!!"
800+ military bases in close to a hundred countries all over the world, 251 wars since 1991, millions dead, promises broken, governments overthrown, nations destroyed, but it's Russia that is the threat to peace 🙄
Everything the US says about Russia is projection.
or at least no broad culture of racism or systematic racism." That's true.
or at least no broad culture of racism or systematic racism."
That's true.
Denying the existence of systematic racism in the USA? That's very fascist of you.
46% of Ukrainians were described as "Jew-haters" by the ADL. Somebody's figures are wrong. 70% of those people voted for a Jew in the final round of the election.
46% of Ukrainians were described as "Jew-haters" by the ADL.
The figures are fine. It is your interpretation of them which is wrong. Real life is not a 1940s western where the Good Guys wear white hats and the Bad Guys wear black hats and the hardest moral decision you have to make is whether or not you have to wait for the baddie to draw his six-shooter before drawing yours.
People are complicated and there is no conflict between people with antisemitic opinions, or even "Jew haters" to use the ADL's term, voting for a Jew, if they think the alternatives are even worse.
Just as Jews fought in Hitler's Wehrmacht, and even Hitler was known to intervene personally to have individual Jews declared honorary Aryan and protected from deportation to the camps.
[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago (5 children)
What matters is their position of influence and ability to wield power.
Which the election of Zelenskyy also shows is obviously bullshit.
And yet invading and annexing neighbouring countries is still frowned upon.
For some reason the method of throwing criminals at the civilian population to rape and murder is also not admired.
Neither is using neo-nazis like the Rusich Group.
Denying the existence of systematic racism in the USA?
Not exactly. I'm saying the election of Obama is part of the evidence that a culture of racism doesn't dominate in the USA.
Having said that, Zelenskyy's margin was much greater than Obama's.
The figures are fine. It is your interpretation of them which is wrong.
You've got a weak definition of "Jew-hater" if at least 40% of them, and likely much more, voted for a Jew than for Poroshenko.
Just as Jews fought in Hitler's Wehrmacht
They did. While Hitler exterminated their families. Some of them might have genuinely felt "down with us". I suspect some of them hope that their loyalty to their country would allow them to have their lives back. I suspect some of them were intentionally ineffective at critical moments in battle.
But this is a fringe phenomena. A lot less that 40% of Jews were in the German military.
[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago (4 children)
The US has invaded dozens of countries and that's fine, right? Its always self defence, even when the country is tiny and helpless like Haiti, or on the opposite side of the world. They just don't annex them, they merely install pliant, obedient vassal governments, or smash the country into collapse and then walk away from the chaos. When America says they have to invade because "they hate our freedoms" we have to believe them. Right?
Not one single country the US has invaded since WW2 has threatened the US, or has been in a position to threaten the US. Whereas Ukraine is literally on Russia's doorstep and NATO membership is a genuine threat. Over the last few centuries, Russia has suffered at least five existential threats by military invasion that threatened their very existence, and in all five cases the invasion route was through Ukraine: Sweden, Poland, France and Germany twice.
The most recent time, still in living memory, was an attempted war of annihilation that saw 9-10 million Soviets (mostly Russians) outright murdered in cold blood, over and above the ordinary casualties of war.
When President Obama said that Ukraine was of critical importance to the security and safety of Russia, and of no importance at all to the US, he wasn't mistaken.
If NATO was genuinely a peaceful defensive alliance, they could have easily offered defence guarantees to Ukraine without NATO membership, like Finland had.
Since the fall of the USSR, NATO and especially the US have proven themselves to be untrustworthy, duplicitous and aggressive. There is absolutely no doubt at all that they threaten the existence of Russia, and their moves towards Ukraine are part of that threat. Ukraine's nazis are just a tool for America to use to push Ukraine further out of the Russian sphere of influence and to be a catspaw for NATO.
The people of south and east Ukraine are ethnically and culturally Russian. Their west Ukrainian government wants them dead or suppressed and has weaponized the neo-nazi paramilitaries against them since the 2014 coup. They want out of Ukraine and into Russia.
Self-determination is supposed to be a universal human right, except when it goes against American interests, right?
Russia uses Wagner, including Rusich, in combat against enemy soldiers, and that's bad.
But it's fine when Ukraine use Azov, Aidar, Right-Sector, Svoboda etc against civilians.
Ukraine just targeted civilians again, in an attempt to blow up the bridge to Crimea, which has zero military value, and critically injured a 14 year old girl and killed both her parents, and that's not terrorism at all 🙄
Wikipedia is colonised by US aligned intelligence agencies, so we have to take their page on Rusich with more than a generous heaping of salt. But it does seem that they are nasty characters and in a perfect world they would be suppressed. War crimes are war crimes whoever does them.
But in Russia, far-right groups are generally suppressed, not encouraged. Look at the Wikipedia page on neo-Nazis in Russia and seen how many of the groups are described using the word "was" rather than "is". Rusich escapes because they are useful and stay out of politics. We don't live in a perfect world, and the far-right exists in every country. I am sure you will find plenty of Aryan Brotherhood folks in the US military too.
Zelenskyy's margin was much greater than Obama's.
Yes. Zelensky was a popular TV celebrity and he tuned into the ordinary Ukrainian's disgust against the oligarchs and their neo-Nazis and their desire to end the civil war. I'm not surprised that many Ukrainians voted for him. 45% of the eligible voting population voting for a comedian tells us a lot about both the desperation of Ukrainians to end the civil war and their gullibility to think that a comedian with no political experience could do it.
Shame that he turned out to be the biggest and most corrupt crook of all, a protégé of the oligarch funding Azov, a totally ineffective president, completely unable to rein in the neo-Nazis, and an easy mark to NATO.
I actually feel sorry for the man. He probably did have good intentions in 2019, but as soon as Azov threatened him, his complete lack of backbone and moral fibre came out. But then I remember that he's a corrupt oligarch who has stolen billions, so fuck him.
But again, none of this has any bearing on the existence of a large and influential neo-nazi far-right in Ukraine. You're just white-washing them.
Its not my definition, its the ADL's. And yes, I dare say that they're using sensationalist language. Not every person who thinks Jews have too much power is a jew-hating Nazi who wants them dead.
I don't see how you get "at least 40%" there. Suppose the ADL is correct and not sensationalising even a bit, and 46% of Ukrainians in 2019 actually hated Jews with a passion and wanted to bring back the gas chambers.
But 55% of Ukrainians either voted for Poroshenko or didn't vote at all. There is no need to imagine that even one single "jew hater" voted for Zelensky if you think that it is impossible for people who are prejudiced against jews to vote for a jew as the least worst option.
[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago* (3 children)
The US has invaded dozens of countries and that's fine, right?
Nope.
The NATO negotiations with Ukraine are post-invasion.
Prior to 2014 it was solely economic cooperation that was bringing them away from Russian influence. And then with the EU, not NATO.
But when you see a neighbouring country annexed, you worry. Especially since Moldova was part of Putin's expansion plans. There may be other intelligence that were not aware of that rushed Finland and Sweden to NATO.
Against soldiers?
You're not following the news of mass graves uncovered, torture centres, rapes, targeting of schools and hospitals, the killing of civilians fleeing during organised ceasefires, or the kidnapping of children?
It's not fine when anyone uses violence against civilians.
Sending in neo-nazis to "denazify" is still transparently bullshit.
[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago (2 children)
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_170408.htm
Latest in a long line of atrocity propaganda. German soldiers bayoneting Belgium nuns and babies. Viagra-fueled rapes. Anti-personnel mines designed to look like toys. Nayirah and the Kuwaiti babies.
I've only seen one credible report of an obvious war crime by Russian forces, and that was the beheading of a prisoner.
On the other hand, I've seen plenty of credible reports of war crimes by west Ukrainians, since they usually don't try to hide them, they brag about them on social media.
Some examples which I consider to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt:
Some I'm not sure of. I personally am convinced, but not beyond all reasonable doubt. Just on the balance of probabilities.
Ah, so you'll be condemning the nine year long campaign of west Ukraine against ethnic Russian civilians in the Donbas region then?
Nobody specifically sent in neo-nazis to Ukraine. They are mercenaries in Wagner, and were sent in because Wagner accepted the contract to fight not because they were neo-nazis. Unlike most neo-nazis groups in Russia, Rusich is careful to avoid being banned by not committing any obvious crimes and staying out of politics.
The fact that some of Wagner's troops happen to be neo-nazi is unfortunate but irrelevant. There are neo-nazis in every country's armed forces, but that alone does not necessarily make the neo-nazis a threat.
[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago* (1 child)
The NATO negotiations with Ukraine are post-invasion. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_170408.htm
Yes. Post invasion.
You're not looking.
When the video footage of Russians shooting that man with his hands up on the road near Kyiv, back when Putin was trying to take Kyiv, it was clear that they didn't have orders to be polite.
The wiki page has a lot of sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 9 months ago (0 children)
In what universe is a press release written 31 October 2019, describing a 2019 meeting between Ukraine and NATO, "post" an invasion that occurred in 2022?
I suppose, since you believe that NATO has a time machine, you won't be satisfied by a meeting in 2010 either, or the 2008 summit where NATO declared that Ukraine "will" become a NATO member:
"At the Bucharest Summit, NATO Allies welcomed Ukraine's and Georgia's Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership and agreed that these countries will become members of NATO."
And in 2000 NATO said:
"The Commission expressed satisfaction with a successful development of NATO-Ukraine cooperation in the framework of the Joint Working Group on Defence reform. Its meeting at senior level on 5 October reinvigorated the cooperative process of the last two years, provided an opportunity for both sides to outline concrete steps for NATO-Ukraine cooperation in this area."
So NATO themselves say that they were working towards military cooperation, if not full membership, with Ukraine at least as far back at 1998.
I've seen plenty of accusations of Russian war crimes, but none of them are credible. I'm not saying that there are none, only that I haven't come across them. I don't know the case you are talking about, "that man with his hands up on the road near Kyiv". Do you have a source?
In any case, every time you have a war, you have war crimes, and cover-ups of those crimes. We've seen it in Iraq and Afghanistan and I dare say that there will be war crimes committed by both sides in Ukraine too. But one side boasts about it and the media fails to report on it, while the other side is pilloried for every real, unproven and invented war crime the west can find or invent. One side openly talks about ethnic cleansing Crimea, and targets civilians, while the other side is accused of war crimes no matter what they do.
Wikipedia is colonised by western spooks and when it comes to recent political events it is at least as biased as the mainstream western press. Any source that contradicts the mainstream narrative gets mislabelled "an unreliable source" and banned. "Wikipedia says" might as well be "The White House says" as far as credibility goes.
Right from the first paragraph, the intention is clear: "the Russian military and authorities have committed multiple war crimes" with no mention of Ukrainian war crimes (although if you read between the lines through the page you will find hints that Ukraine's hands aren't clean).
This is not an encyclopedic article about actual or even alleged war crimes in the Ukraine SMO but a hit piece that throws as much mud at Russia as possible in the hope that naive people will think it sticks:
etc. The deeper you do into the article, the less one-sided it becomes, and some Ukrainian war crimes are briefly mentioned, but even so this is an extremely one-sided article, not a fair and balanced encyclopedic article. For example, I see:
I understand that this is a Wikipedia article, and they're not supposed to be doing their own analysis. But in this case when we're still in the fog of war, and two thirds of what we are shown will turn out to be mistaken or deliberate disinformation for propaganda purposes, Wikipedia should not be taking such a one-side and partisan point of view.
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[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (8 children)
[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - (7 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (6 children)
[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - (5 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - (4 children)
[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - (3 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - (2 children)
[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - (1 child)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (0 children)