The “Gold Star” Problem

submitted by WordsHaveMeanings from self.Lesbians

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[–][deleted] 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I just think we shouldn't be defining ourselves in relation to men at all.

[–]funk_transcender 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

This, in one sentence, pretty much sums up my feelings about the whole topic. I just find this subject exhausting and over-talked about honestly. It just seems to be a divisive label and I’m not sure why we wilfully perpetuate it. It plays zero role in who I want to date or what I think of a person. I don’t even know why you’d even be asking a potential partner if they’ve been with a man before... either they have and, they regret it, and probably find it quite traumatic to think about; if they haven’t, it appears they have their own issues about it too. Why constantly bring a magnifying glass to who did and didn’t fuck men? It’s bizarre. One thing I will say is I have zero tolerance for that BS in any relationship I find my self in. I’ve dealt with enough shame in my life, thanks.

[–]strictly 13 insightful - 7 fun13 insightful - 6 fun14 insightful - 7 fun -  (16 children)

I just find this subject exhausting and over-talked about honestly

It can be nice to talk to other lesbians with the same background who can relate to that as lesbians with sexual history with men often (not always) assume those who lack sexual history with men must be more privileged and dealt with less homophobia which isn't always the case. If it's considered a triggering topic in lesbian sub I actually think we need more division, a space where lesbians with this background can talk about it without anyone feeling sad about it.

[–]Hydiee 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

As a gold star, I agree that this subject is exhausting and over-talked about (and pointless). Honestly, there are some things I envy about the gay male community and this is one of them. They don't give a damn about this stupid gold star shit. Fortunately, this is almost entirely just an online thing. I'm glad I haven't met any lesbians in real life who want to sit around and chat about being gold star.

[–]strictly 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

As a gold star, I agree that this subject is exhausting and over-talked about (and pointless)

Yeah but you are not all women with this background, like women who don't care if men are in the female locker rooms, they are not all women. Shouldn't we be able to decide for ourselves as individuals if we find that as something we would want to talk about? It shouldn't be forced of course so if you don't want to talk about it, then don't, but I still think others should be able to talk about having that background if they want to.

I'm glad I haven't met any lesbians in real life who want to sit around and chat about being gold star.

I personally would find it interesting to talk with others who can relate to not being able to relate when people talk about their history with men so we are not the same in that regard. It seems you see it as disrespectful in some way to talk about it when it's a neutral topic.

[–]Hydiee 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't see it as disrespectful. I agree that others can talk about it if they want, it's not like I could stop them anyway. I know I'm not "all women", I was simply giving my opinion. Hopefully that clears up all your false assumptions.

[–]strictly 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I don't see it as disrespectful.

Hopefully that clears up all your false assumptions.

If I hear two people talk about knitting and I tell them the subject is exhausting, over-talked about and pointless then I wouldn't act surpised if it seemed like they thought I judged them. But I will take your word for it.

[–]Wot 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (11 children)

I find this sentiment stupid because if we want more lesbians to avoid traumatic experiences of fucking men and counter all the influence and ubiquitous pressure there is to fuck men then gold star rethoric needs more exposure not less. Not fucking men isn't normal, gold star rethoric normalizes it and trying to silence it and call it pointless and over talked is literally counter to protecting lesbians.

[–]Hydiee 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I think you're confused. I'm not trying to silence gold stars from telling their story. Why would I want to do that? Telling lesbians that they don't need to fuck men just to be sure is great. Telling lesbians that not being "gold star" makes them permanently tainted by men and less of a lesbian is the shit I don't like. And don't kid yourself by saying that doesn't happen.

The way I see it all lesbians, gold star or not, can help young lesbians avoid traumatic experiences by telling their stories. The gold stars say "I never slept with a man before and I've got zero regrets or FOMO. There's nothing wrong with never being with a man" and the non gold stars say "I did sleep with a man before and you know what? I still don't want them. It was an empty, traumatic experience for me. So if you're not attracted to men, having sex with them definitely won't "fix" that"

I personally think we should do away with the "gold star" stuff altogether. Like I said, all lesbians stories are valuable in helping younger lesbians understand that it's okay to set sexual boundaries and be themselves in this heterosexual world. No need to create some stupid division. We're all just lesbians.

[–]Wot 11 insightful - 7 fun11 insightful - 6 fun12 insightful - 7 fun -  (8 children)

Telling lesbians that not being "gold star" makes them permanently tainted by men and less of a lesbian is the shit I don't like. And don't kid yourself by saying that doesn't happen.

Ok, and that can be addressed without acting like the existence of gold stars is some burdensome, illogical division. It's not a zero sum game. Don't kid yourself by acting like that's the only discourse here and discourse put out by only some gold stars when that's very clearly easy rethoric co-opted by trans and bisexuals.

If you truly see all experiences as valuable than there's no reason for you to feel like gold stars should go away. What you're essentially doing is making people's lives comparable with ideology or politicizing it by saying gold stars create division. The division is inherent and fine because there will be women with this experience, period. You wanting them gone demonizes and silences them.

[–]Hydiee 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'm shocked. Did you even read what I typed? Seriously??

Where did I say "the existence of gold stars is some burdensome, illogical division"?

Where did I say that I want gold stars "gone"?

First of all, you read and replied to my first comment which happens to begin with "As a gold star..." so you know already that it's dumb of you to say that I want gold stars gone. I said I want the gold star STUFF to be gone. I think it's a stupid concept that creates unnecessary division. Nobody -not a single person- is against you telling your story. You need to quit acting like some ostracized victim.

[–]Wot 9 insightful - 8 fun9 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 8 fun -  (6 children)

Where did I say "the existence of gold stars is some burdensome, illogical division" Where did I say that I want gold stars "gone"?

Did you forget you agreed with the woman who said:

It just seems to be a divisive label and I’m not sure why we wilfully perpetuate it. It plays zero role in who I want to date or what I think of a person. Why constantly bring a magnifying glass to who did and didn’t fuck men?

Basically reducing the gold star experience to a harmful concept we perpetuate and wanting the labeling of this experience gone because it's not significant to her? Are you going to act like wanting this gone is not wanting gold stars gone?

What does it even mean to not want gold stars gone but want their stuff gone? It's like saying, I don't want gays gone but I want gay stuff gone and then reducing gay "stuff" to homophobia lol. I was under the impression lesbians didn't want lesbianism politicized because it's an orientation but here yall are politicizing lesbianism lol Like, you literally agreed with a woman who basically said that the gold star concept is misogynistic, is bad because it makes those non-gold stars feel bad, is divisive (thus should go away like being a lesbian isn't divisive in and of itself and that's why we've been banished here), convinced that being gold star is not just an experience in and of itself but a broadcasting of unrealistic expectation but wants women to exist in a world where they don't feel pressure to be with men tho the very subject of gold stars is exhausting and over-talked about. That's not consistent. That's lesbophobic.

As a gold star, I agree that this subject is exhausting and over-talked about (and pointless) I'm glad I haven't met any lesbians in real life who want to sit around and chat about being gold star.

But ok, you aren't against people telling their story and think it's valuable lol

Yall: I want lesbians to be free of the pressure and experience of fucking men but I want those who didn't to essentially stfu about it even tho I acknowledge their voices would be valuable.

[–]Hydiee 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. Why are you bringing up political lesbians? All I said is that I wish we could be like gay men and stop giving a shit about whether other lesbians were with the opposite sex in their past or not. And somehow it turned into this...

But ok, you aren't against people telling their story and think it's valuable lol

When I agreed that the gold star subject is exhausting and over-talked about and said that I'm glad I don't know lesbians who want to sit and chat about that stuff in real life, I was not talking about gold stars telling their stories and experiences. I was referring to that disgusting holier than thou attitude that we've all seen before. What I should have said to be more clear is, "I'm glad I haven't met any lesbians in real life who want to sit around and pat each other's asses for being gold star."

We are on the same side, we both don't want lesbians to feel like they have to have sex with men. I really don't know what your problem is anymore.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Alternatively, another way we could discourage young lesbians from sleeping with men is by chilling the fuck out so it doesn't appear like being a lesbian means being in a constant state of war with the world, including with one another.

Because I can tell you, the angry, combative lesbian stereotype did young me absolutely no favors.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

THANK you!!! Yes to all of this. Especially this:

Telling lesbians that they don't need to fuck men just to be sure is great. Telling lesbians that not being "gold star" makes them permanently tainted by men and less of a lesbian is the shit I don't like. And don't kid yourself by saying that doesn't happen.