The definition of lesbian: the googoogaga factor

submitted by Skipdip from self.Lesbians

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[–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

My point is that either everyone is bisexual or something else is going on.

I don’t think this rigidity fits in with reality. And there is a lot of science to back up this fluidity idea.

Being forced to marry a man or raped does not adequately cover the nuanced psychological reasons a straight woman would choose to be with a man, or a lesbian woman would choose to be with a woman.

The whole point here is while a lesbian could (and often are) with men, it is a lukewarm situation. It is not possible for it not to be a lukewarm situation. If it isn’t, then she is bisexual.

Do you get the distinction I am making?

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think you're overthinking things. If you accept that it's possible for someone to sleep with people they find unattractive, then you can accept that straight people can engage in gay sex and that gay people can engage in heterosexual sex, for a variety of reasons (experimentation, internal or external homophobia, "prison gay", self harm, etc).

However, due to the fetishization of lesbians, the current trendiness of being LGBT, as well as the whole trans thing causing heterosexuals to claim homosexuality, it can be hard to accept someone's orientation at their word, especially with women, where claiming bi or homosexuality may make them seem sexier to men. So it's easy to default to using someone's sexual history to make individual judgment calls. Some lesbians take this way too far, but it's also understandable lesbians are going to be deeply suspicious of a self-proclaimed lesbian with 20 previous male partners. Do I think it's possible a lesbian has had so many male partners? Sure. Do I think it's likely? Not really, and I would be very unlikely to date or trust such an individual. Somewhere in the history of sex, it has probably happened. However, occam's razor says it's more likely that woman is just bisexual with an attachment to the lesbian identity for whatever reason.

I also think women who believe they may be lesbian, but are not currently living a "lesbian lifestyle" for lack of a better word (let's say a lesbian in the process of leaving her husband), should avoid using the lesbian label until they've been exclusively dating and sleeping with women for awhile.

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree with all this. She doesn’t say she is lesbian, she says she is a “queer” “gay” “trans man”. There was a short period pre trans where she did say she was lesbian. But now she says it “didn’t work for her”... whatever that means :/

I am not making fun of her at all. She has a really high ACE (adverse childhood experiences) score, and a hard life.

If she acts like a lesbian, and fucks you like a lesbian, she’s probably a lesbian. She keeps saying she is “into everybody” but clearly is not excited by men or their genitals.

Maybe she isn’t, and that’s her journey, but my intuition is that she is. It’s not far fetched at all for lesbians to sleep with men for the reasons you listed.

All I’m trying to say is pOLEASE, can we be nicer to other lesbians? We, especially the younger generation, are in the trenches right now. Yes we need to make sure bi women and straight women aren’t slipping in an appropriating our label. But! We should caution on the side of acceptance, of really listening to people’s stories, not rejection right now. It doesn’t take much listening to hear the googoogaga

I am so tired of having no actual lesbian space where I can talk to other confident, self-aware lesbians. The lesbian experience is often a very isolated one and it’s tragic. I’m tired of this saidit being the only space I have, having to text everything into my dinky phone. I want to talk to people, I want to see their faces. Yet because of the QT invasion there are no safe places in reality. Not even in ducking northhampton. Which is supposed to be the #1 lesbian city in the whole USA. There are no formal lesbian spaces there. What the fuck has this come to? I lived in 2 major gay areas and there was not one lesbian exclusive place for confident lesbians to hold the hands of struggling lesbians so we can heal together and come into ourselves. It sucks.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I personally like to err on the side of taking women at their word unless they give me a flagrant reason not to do so, so if someone is telling me that they're "into everybody", I would be listening to that, not looking for reasons to classify her as something else.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure if you want to do that. But given the culture that would mean that literally there are no lesbians except for me. No, that is too simple. In this day and age we have to be discerning. If you had taken me at my word I was “into everybody”.