Indoctrination / DoublethinkPoint me to one "t*rf" who says all THAT...

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[–][deleted] 34 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

That's a lot of gibberish. Pretty sure every "TERF" knows the difference between an AGP and a homosexual trans woman.

[–]spicebutton 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Theyre humiliated that the mainstream knows this so they intentionally try to essentialize and twist things around. "Terfs say HSTS secretly want to fuck women and that's why they identify as women!" uh...huh. He knows what he is.

And theyre the ones with the freaky friday/magic body swap theories: I'm a straight woman trapped inside a gay man's body!"..."No WAY! I'm a gay man trapped inside a straight woman's body!" lol

ok im editing my comment. I reread everything that person wrote and...most terfs come from advanced, culturally sophisticated communities (because they had to be this way out of necessity). Most "terfs" used to be white lesbians, white straight women and some gay men and so on. But now there are a bunch of incredibly ignorant, culturally impoverished and bigoted black women "joining in", with no theory, no critical thinking andbarely understand what any of this is except that it's probably an illuminati plot to turn everyone gay as a plan concocted by the scheming jews.

"Terfs" are a small group of intelligent people (and no, im not saying this to flatter them) but theyre a puddle of "thought leaders" that need to be a proper mouth piece so they can lead the ocean of heterosexual bigoted idiots from other communities who start spewing their hyper conservative garbage to make us look like idiots.

Ovarit was deliberating on whether it's appropriate to give invite codes to people from the subreddit "femaledatingstrategy" and theyre all very polite (Ovarit people) but you could tell how uncomfortable some people felt at the massive cultural differences between the people at Ovarit and the femaledatingstrategy (lipstickalley) group.

Now ovarit spends just as much time trying to "help" these new people understand that transing is not an illuminati plot and there are different reasons for it and HSTS is very different from AGP since HSTS are heavily encouraged to convert or be fixed. And now some people at ovarit are spreading the misinformation that HSTS people have some massive fetish for women and do it sexually as well, even though theyre the ones who've been documented at 3 or 4 insisting theyre a girl. Do Lesbians transition because they cant stop fetishizing straight men? lol

This person might not be lying at the kind of "terfs" he's encountered but i dont even consider them to be "terfs".

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Re: HSTS vs AGP transwomen: I'd boil it down to this:

For all their differences, they're essentially the same in one respect: the way that they view women. Namely, as-- first and foremost-- attractive to straight men. That's what "woman" means to them: sex object for hetero dudes. End of.

The distinction between HSTS and AGP lies in whether the straight-male sensibility that their imagined female persona caters to is that of other guys (HSTS), or themselves (AGP). The straight man (ostensibly) that they want to date... or the straight man that they actually are.

Either way, though, they see women in purely sexual terms, and from a purely straight-male perspective. Which is creepy as shit, and doubly-so for lesbians.

[–]spicebutton 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That doesnt seem very consistent.

Transexuality is not an identity but it has been a solution for gay children for thousands of years. In all cultures, completely independent and separate from each other, they couldnt conceive of homosexuality as anything other than a perverted heterosexual (this is common amongst all humans when you define others based on yourself, like when the white travellers first met the japanese and the japanese described them as horrific, broken deformed japanese people or how straight men secretly defined women as just "non men" or cheaper versions of men).

Weve always seen gay children as "women trapped inside a man's body" and the most humane thing to do would be to "fix" them. Transing gay children is a normal, horrificly barbaric and homophobic thing to do which we've always done. They dont fetishize women. Without gay culture, these children are forced to grow up conceiving all their naturally feminine traits as originating from women which is absolutely not true. But our culture (women and men DEMAND to lay claim to certain traits: men are logical and women are compassionate. So yes, we destroy gay children like this and theyre brainwashed into thinking this. AGP And AAP are not brainwashed into this. They genuinely fetishize gays and lesbians.

Calling 4 year old gay boys "fetishists" just ends up removing terf credibility. And again with the inconsistencies;the people at ovarit (terfs and radical feminists) have a very hypocritical view where they fabricate highly sympathetic narratives for straight women who think theyre gay men and go into deep, philosophical imaginings of what lead her to do this to herself and why she would want to escape womanhood.... and then call the straight men fetishists when they basically parallel each other.

HSTS are now quite rare and about 95% of transexuals are straight (sometimes bi) people. But theyre now rare because when gays and lesbians see "their people", they understand heterosexuals are crazed, insane and their ideas about what it means to be a man or a woman are completely wrong and it teaches them theyre not women trapped inside a man's body. The stronger the gay and lesbian community is, the less of a chance for the HSTS population to grow.

Transexuality for homosexuals is a completely natural consequence (homophobic damage) of how straight men and women define what it means to be a man and a woman. It's just like how the consequence for patriarchy (no matter how beautiful people try and make patriarchy sound) is the natural enslavement of women and an increase of homophobia. No one states it outright but because it's not a pretty picture. Transexuality as a problem is nothing new for gays and lesbians. But what is new is that now it's eating heterosexuals alive and maybe now they'd reconsider their barbaric definitions of what it means to be a man and a woman.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But now there are a bunch of incredibly ignorant, culturally impoverished and bigoted black women "joining in", with no theory, no critical thinking andbarely understand what any of this is except that it's probably an illuminati plot to turn everyone gay as a plan concocted by the scheming jews.

Do you have any source for this claim whatsoever? "Culturally impoverished"? I am no fan of radical feminism but this seems like a far-fetched claim to make about it... I agree that people engaging some sort of conspiracy-theory mindset about the transgender movement is misinformed and unhelpful.

femaledatingstrategy (lipstickalley)

Those are two different groups. Are you suggesting they're all the same people...?

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Don't waste your time with him. It's grammaroo again.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

u/exponent2

I thought it might be. I was more arguing for the lurkers; I'd rather call out something that seems unfair regardless of who says it. But you make a good point.

[–]spicebutton 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm making invidious comments and you're not reading through the subtext. In one sentence, i just come out and say it. I complimented radical feminists as learned people with education, theory and a knowledge of history. Theyre a unique activist community that's forced to read and learn and they have no choice but to confront and wrestle with theories.

There's another group that insists on speaking without knowing much and all they have is complaints instead of solutions and even their solutions or diagnoses is pretty stupid. Radical feminists are in no way culturally impoverished...but there's a flood of "culturally impoverished" black women coming into terf communities who know nothing and refuse to learn and they make everyone they associate with look like idiots. Theyre borderline "Hotep", illuminati, jews are doing it...theyre basically right wing lunatics with barely any understanding of the outside world and they make actual terfs look like idiots. Terfs are trying to contain them and be incredibly diplomatic about it, but i mean...the level of bigotry and ignorance they have to contend with in "quarantining" these people must be exhausting to them.

Femaledatingstrategy, it's mods and lots of its userbase share an incredibly large overlap between them and lipstickalley, which is almost exclusively black. I've been on there as well. Good luck trying to find any useful information there to educate you on how to stop transing people. The best you can get is "theyre nasty...and i hear theyre all gay men". It's just.... theyre hopeless and stupid and insist on cooking in the kitchen with mommy because theyre big girls too even though theyre going to destroy half the kitchen, ruin the food and then blame it all on someone else. Theyre a problem.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm making invidious comments and you're not reading through the subtext. In one sentence, i just come out and say it.

I was confused by your comment so I asked. Thanks for elaborating.

but there's a flood of "culturally impoverished" black women coming into terf communities who know nothing and refuse to learn and they make everyone they associate with look like idiots. Theyre borderline "Hotep", illuminati, jews are doing it...theyre basically right wing lunatics with barely any understanding of the outside world and they make actual terfs look like idiots. Terfs are trying to contain them and be incredibly diplomatic about it, but i mean...the level of bigotry and ignorance they have to contend with in "quarantining" these people must be exhausting to them.

Do you have any examples of this? I have never seen a flood of black women, specifically, coming into radfem spaces or the broader gender dysphoria debate, with "culturally impoverished" views-- which sounds like an unfair and sweeping generalization to make about any one demographic.

Femaledatingstrategy, it's mods and lots of its userbase share an incredibly large overlap between them and lipstickalley, which is almost exclusively black. I've been on there as well.

Interesting. I've looked at FDS before and my impression was of a confusing mish-mash of common-sense advice and narcissistic insanity. I have not looked at LSA much, will take a look.

Good luck trying to find any useful information there to educate you on how to stop transing people. The best you can get is "theyre nasty...and i hear theyre all gay men".

That is a shame to hear.

It's just.... theyre hopeless and stupid and insist on cooking in the kitchen with mommy because theyre big girls too even though theyre going to destroy half the kitchen, ruin the food and then blame it all on someone else. Theyre a problem.

That sounds like an infantilizing characterization.

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Could be a coincidence, but this thread was posted today on LSA, possibly in response to this comment.

[–]Cass 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Ovarit was deliberating on whether it's appropriate to give invite codes to people from the subreddit "femaledatingstrategy"

nooooo lmao

edit: I think there's a difference between terf and actual real transphobes who happen to be women

[–]usehername 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's where r/GenderCynical gets a lot of their content x_x it's infuriating

[–]spicebutton 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

lol yes. i was there. I have one of the highest "level" ovarit accounts. i know how to speak their language. I was there for the "drama" and how "girl_undone" had to give some sort of speech multiple times about how ovarit isnt exlclusively for radical feminists and some people complaining (rightfully so) about letting a bunch of black women incels from femaledatingstrategy flood ovarit with no theory, no knowledge of history and the only thing they could rely on were "the illuminati did it" or "the jews are scheming to turn everyone gay" lol

There's a massive difference in quality of postings between the original ovarit users and the ones they gave ovarit codes to from femaledatingstrategy. Most of the people in "gender critical" were highly educated. Go on ovarit now and you can see the tension.

"i know im going to get downvoted to hell for this BUT im a black woman and HSTS people fetishize women just as much. Why you guys be simping for gay men real hard over here!"

....white feminist ovarit members have to explain over and over again: "we trans gay children. we've been doing it for thousands of years because of patriarchy"

Original poster: "whatever! fuck these people!" lol

Black women have a psychotic hatred for homosexuals in general and their homophobia would exceed that of neo nazis and the KKK. No matter how many times you explain it to them, they refuse to believe theyre not at war with gays and jews and that AGP men are straight. The irony is, it's conservatism and patriarchy that generate AGP/AAP people but these black women would rather burn in their homophobia and misogyny than admit theyre bigoted idiots.

Black women literally came up with the meme: "if a man orders a dessert while out on a date with you, watch out ladies; he be gay because eating dessert is a womanly thing". <-- we'll make sure to put those wise words right up there with Andrea Dworking and Simone de beauvoir.

[–]Cass 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had no idea that FDS was full of black women. I only went there when it was linked to other subs, to make fun of what they posted.

Back when gender critical was on reddit I noticed most of the participants there were very scared of being called "racist". I remember one incident in particular when a black woman started freaking out about how karen is a black thing and using it is cultural appropriation. She was saying some racist af things and yet many posters were falling over themselves in trying to appease her.

Perhaps that is why they invited FDS on ovarit, to feel like they're not racist.

[–]starbear4 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They invited them over to ovarit because they were looking for a concentration of feminists. The people at femaledatingstrategy are incels, absolutely 100% NOT feminists lol Theyre black incel women and that minority has a lot of them. These people seem to think that because they experience misogyny, that they can administer a diagonoses instead of just reading a god damn book. FemaleDatingStrategy answers the question "what would it look like if you took away all theory and critical thinking and just jumbled up a bunch of anecdotal dating experiences and personal experiences with men into a collection of grievances". What you get is nothing. I'm not even white but they went out of their way to dismiss over what...like 300 years of feminism and scholarly analysis because it was by "white women".

Their solution to patriarchy is...turbo patriarchy lol One of my friends was incredibly excited to see that subreddit and she went through comment by comment devastated at what these women were offering as advice. And yes, black women in particular on lipstick alley are "proud" and think theyre doing something by running that subreddit.

So when they flooded ovarit, the comments changed from incredibly incisive, powerful and devastating analysis of the trans phenomenon to "If a man beats you, he's secretly gay. which real man would beat a woman". Like...my god lol Apparently for 6 thousand years of human civilization, almost all the men were gay. Their "knowledge" is just the "wisdom" of some bigoted church grandma. It's less about skin color and more about the massive difference in socioeconomic status and the culture that produces.

The people from FemaleDatingStrategy will end up ruining ovarit but everyone is way, way too diplomatic to say anything. It's a highly regulated site but.. they squander a lot of time "helping" these people who know theyre definitely right in what theyre saying when they spout their ignorance. And the drama when it came to abortion rights on a site made for radical feminists was insane. People were wondering where this new faction was coming from and it was obvious.

There's no discussion of institutional misogyny or civil rights or historical patterns. It's literally just people bickering about dating woes and i just dont consider people like that to even come close to being feminists.