LifestyleHow do you think you appear to others once you've disclosed that you're gay/lesbian/bi?

submitted by lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

I think this type of woman simply targets women she thinks will, indeed, be eager / desperate enough. I have no clue about how butch women feel about their experiences, or if one could even generalize to any meaningful extent about which gay women are more likely to attract this crap. Either way, yeah, if there's one thing I won't do, it's be in the position of having pushed anyone else into anything, ever. I won't play games with coy people, they are just cowards who won't own their desire and I've never given a one of them any slack about this. It's just childish. When I detect someone is requiring the other person to take all of the risks (enthusiastic consent is a way better (and obviously, required) approach, but I still want to see some ownership of what they want, beyond just saying so, before I'll even broach it), I just keep them at arm's length and start wondering about how many false assault accusations they've inflicted, or will in the future.

I watched a serial abuser (a bi woman) target a rather homely butch lesbian I am quite confident she actually thought wasn't very attractive, because her target would 1. not be appearance competition for this abuser's ego, 2. be weak enough to fall for it, 3. had a high-paying job, and 4. a house she could move into. (I unfortunately witnessed her putting the moves on this poor woman in a totally fake, manipulative way, and watched the target unwittingly eat it up, not realizing that this love-bombing act was a mask that would fall off later, so I'm definitely not speculating. It was super gross.)

Not unrelated, said abuser also has a Cluster B personality disorder.

So it's an automatic "no" for any woman who points this at me.

It's not an accident that I am bisexual—it's a result of women being scarce or unsuitable. My libido is stronger than my odds are high of finding a woman who is both available and has her shit together. I'm just lucky that I'm not turned off by men's bodies. Men get to the point and are straightforward about what they want. (Which is totally easy for straight men to do, I'm sure, so there's nothing really exceptional about this. It just is.)

And obviously, it would be unrealistic, given the related hardships, to expect women to know how to feel confident and comfortable with their same-sex attraction in a society is messed-up as this one has been. I still require it. If I can do it, so can others. If they can't yet, they can go practice on someone else.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Are you saying you're bi simply because it's difficult to date as lesbian? Sorry, thats bullshit. Simply as that, a real homosexual woman couldn't date men, doesn't matter if the alternative is staying alone forever. We can't do it. Not even superfeminine trans male.

I watched a serial abuser (a bi woman) target a rather homely butch lesbian I am quite confident she actually thought wasn't very attractive, because her target would 1. not be appearance competition for this abuser's ego, 2. be weak enough to fall for it, 3. had a high-paying job, and 4. a house she could move into. (I unfortunately witnessed her putting the moves on this poor woman in a totally fake, manipulative way, and watched the target unwittingly eat it up, not realizing that this love-bombing act was a mask that would fall off later, so I'm definitely not speculating. It was super gross.)

So did the story ended? Are you sure that woman was really abusive, or you just though she was, because you didn't find the butch girl attractive

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You've read things into this that aren't there to read into it. Please read it again but without the lens of trying to find negative things in what I said. Thanks. If it still doesn't make sense then I'll try to help, but at the moment I'm busy still feeling ill, as I was during the wee hours when I wrote this. If you are so busy trying to prove someone else said something bad or wrong that you can't give the benefit of the doubt, I kinda don't have any energy for this conversation.

Please be a kinder listener. I am not your enemy. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't lunge at what I said as if I am.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well, you said your bisexuality isn't an accident, which like imply you're bi on purpose because men are easier to get. I mean it wasn't about inding nothing negative, just what it sounded like

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And this is why the benefit of the doubt is a good thing. Thanks in advance for extending me that courtesy next time, if there is one. I seldom feel that crappy, fortunately.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know if you saw her other comment, but sounded like that was just a mistake in typing. I don't think anywhere in there she claimed to be a "real homosexual woman," though.

So did the story ended? Are you sure that woman was really abusive, or you just though she was, because you didn't find the butch girl attractive

A lot of assumptions to make, my friend. I know it's frustrating to see someone phrase something in a way that a TRA might, but I think it's worth it to check if it might have been a mistake or misunderstanding first.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. I mean it's not at all hard to pick up on my bio or perspective on things here. Suddenly suspecting me of something nefarious is pretty odd. Yeah, it was an error while falling sleep, feeling crappy, and typing in a tiny little text box where I couldn't see the whole thing. <3

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I think this type of woman simply targets women she thinks will, indeed, be eager / desperate enough. I have no clue about how butch women feel about their experiences, or if one could even generalize to any meaningful extent about which gay women are more likely to attract this crap.

No that totally makes sense, unfortunately I know what you're talking about, I fell for someone like that once. I just don't think it's fair to generalize that to masculine lesbians (not saying you did, but sometimes I see people here do that)... maybe it depends on how people are defining "masculine" but just because a woman likes to wear masculine clothing doesn't mean she acts in a way similar to a stereotype about straight men.

...watched the target unwittingly eat it up, not realizing that this love-bombing act was a mask that would fall off later, so I'm definitely not speculating. It was super gross.)

Yeah, I've seen that before, I know what you're talking about. Ugh. Hope she was able to realize what was going on.

It's not an accident that I am bisexual—it's a result of women being scarce or unsuitable. My libido is stronger than my odds are high of finding a woman who is both available and has her shit together. I'm just lucky that I'm not turned off by men's bodies. Men get to the point and are straightforward about what they want. (Which is totally easy for straight men to do, I'm sure, so there's nothing really exceptional about this. It just is.)

I'm a little confused, sorry-- you think it's not an accident that you're bisexual...? Or that you choose to date men (even while being attracted to them)? I do think anyone is capable of being straightforward, and it's a shame that so many women feel like they can't be.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I didn't say that behaviour was normal masculine lesbian behaviour. I said I can see a masculine lesbian with dominate character behave like that. It's in general not a woman behaviour cause we don't have as high libido or the drive to conquer and dominate typical of males. I toldo you femininity is more than clothes, and you come off as feminine in character.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ok but do you define masculinity and femininity, then...? They are just character traits? The last time we talked, you said that you thought butch women are actually just a type of feminine, so I guess I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "masculine" then.

If it has everything to do with personality and dominant behavior, then I can think of quite a few women who dress in very feminine clothes who you might describe as masculine then because they are so assertive. But I'm not convinced it makes sense to call those women masculine; many people I've talked on this sub also define "masculine" as referring to external appearance.

It's in general not a woman behaviour cause we don't have as high libido or the drive to conquer and dominate typical of males.

I mean, to a significant extent these traits are likely not inherent to sex but rather products of culture. But behaviorally, yes, women on average have less of these traits.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Never said butches were feminine. Butches are masculine as fuck. To me, femininity is mainly a character trait, something natural, mannerism , but it also style too. It's a mix of both mannerism/personality and style, but it isn't just style.

I'm pretty sure men are more aggressive because of testosterone , not just culture.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ah, I mixed you up with someone else's comment in that post I made, my bad. How would you describe a butch woman who looks very masculine in style, dress, etc. who acts with character traits that are very typical of women? I'm curious because some of the (self-described) butch women I've talked to are very non-aggressive and don't act like male stereotypes at all, they just happen to be very GNC.

I'm pretty sure men are more aggressive because of testosterone , not just culture.

People overestimate the effect of testosterone; there is a consistent difference in aggression because of testosterone, but it's not that big. That is why I would say it's both biology and culture. I would imagine that, if I were physically bigger and stronger than half the world, I would be more inclined to act aggressive and domineering, as well; having that perspective makes a difference in behavior.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

A butch woman with a natural feminine mannerism (do they exist? Don't know. I feel like if someone is butch, that fit also their character almost alway) would be masculine in style, but feminine in mannerism and personality. Although, I would still not be into her, because I need the feminine style too, not just the mannerism or character.

if I were physically bigger and stronger than half the world, I would be more inclined to act aggressive and domineering, as well; having that perspective makes a difference in behavior."

You are right

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha, that makes sense. Yeah, I think there are definitely some; the couple of very GNC women I've met in real life were like this, actually, I've never met a woman who was very GNC and also very aggressive.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just don't think it's fair to generalize that to masculine lesbians

I agree with you, which might not have come across adequately. I have no generalizations to make about masculine lesbians (if we could even agree, as you noted, on what that means; I am, indeed, not the one who made that distinction).

Hope she was able to realize what was going on.

I believe so, according to a mutual friend who was aware of the situation and the risk to the target. The woman who targeted her is, to be clear, known by many people to be abusive. She also rather bluntly states her unsavory motives at times (without realizing how bad it makes her look; her conscience is not exactly fully developed), and one of the motives she has stated is being uncomfortable dating anyone she sees as being as attractive as herself, or more attractive than herself. (She made comments once or twice to that effect about targeting this particular woman and pursued a similar type in several other cases; like most people with her issues, she’s very formulaic and predictable in some respects.) The mask she showed to her target was very different and completely fake. She’s deeply narcissistic.

I'm a little confused, sorry-- you think it's not an accident that you're bisexual...? Or that you choose to date men (even while being attracted to them)? I do think anyone is capable of being straightforward, and it's a shame that so many women feel like they can't be.

Thank you for asking about this in a considerate way (which is an allusion to the nature of the other commenter's reply, not anything to do with you, just to be completely clear), I was feeling like crap at the time and still am. I clearly closed the comment before re-reading it for clarity and completeness. I likely got bit by the fact that the little text field we get to write in does not expand to show the whole comment, so I probably didn't see that I'd missed something. I’m writing this one in a text editor. The intended point: I'm fortunate that I'm bisexual, and it's not an accident that I act upon that fact more often than I would, given better opportunities with women. To avoid nonsense, which I am not willing to tolerate, I choose to be solo rather than regularly looking for mates. I don’t go looking for men, but good ones find me now and then, and once in a while (but less often than the opportunity presents itself) I take them up on it. The fact that the quality of the men I attract has been so consistently high seems a bit like a cosmic joke given that I am much more strongly attracted to women. But there are a whole lot more men who are attracted to women in the world, so it makes sense.

It just doesn’t match up with how many straight women have subpar (or worse) experiences with men. But it’s probably easier for me to automatically filter out unsuitable men given that I don’t feel compelled to pursue them, and don’t pursue them. I never have. That sort of levels the playing field.

it's a shame that so many women feel like they can't be

Yes. Not much of a surprise, sadly.

Let me know if anything above is confusing. I still feel rather crummy and am writing this under suboptimal ergonomic conditions, as I was with the previous comment early this morning.