LifestyleBreaking up w my gf over trans ideology..

submitted by hufflepuff-poet from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think that's a really good question. I also think that the most accurate answer, even if it's lame, is probably "it really depends on the individual in question."

At a broad level... I try to make sure that the people I want to date (and my friends) believe in the same values as I do. There are many people who believe in the same values as I do, who also happened to get sucked into the cultlike transgender movement. For me, being in that situation would be like if I were dating someone who is fervently Christian and I am an atheist. It is possible that it can work-- if I still have the same set of values as the Christian person I'm dating, and our respective specific religion beliefs are both congruent with those values. But... often, that difference in religion speaks to a difference in values, which in the long run may present problems for a relationship.

I guess I would ask-- is she forceful about her beliefs? It is one thing if she is encouraging dialogue and is open to considering alternative perspectives, and another thing for her to turn her beliefs about being transgender into a character attack on you if you disagree. I think there can be quite a range.

[–]emptiedriver 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I guess I would ask-- is she forceful about her beliefs?

I think part of the problem/ frustration with gender ideology is that since it is a socially supported system, one almost has to be forceful in order for it to hold any water. If you can't get other people to acknowledge and validate you as your chosen gender, what does it even mean? Could anyone be trans alone on a desert island? You'd just be a person with a body. Maybe you could obsess over it and alter it as you stared at your own reflection but really you need other people to use your pronouns and your new name and complement you or give you a pass in accordance with the gender you're trying to attain.

I know a trans man who always posts the most ridiculous "dude" type of posts that no one I know would respond to if it was actually someone's brother, but bc it's someone showing what a guy they are, anytime they post something like "just having a beer and watching the game!" like a dozen alternative-artsy-lesbian type people write things like "right on, my man!" It's a complete farce as far as I can tell, all done in hopes of helping this person feel they are correctly achieving manliness.

Someone can be religious without external support. They can talk to their pastor or congregation about it and not with you, they can pray or write about it for themselves but consider it private, they can even have a fairly public religious worldview, but agree to disagree about some fundamental issues as long as you're respectful. But in trans ideology, it is automatically disrespectful to not already support the facade, and while this can work when it's a rare thing, it's more cumbersome when it's regular. I used to just use preferred pronouns when they only came up on the odd chance I'd be having a conversation that referenced a tiny handful of trans people in my circle - like bowing your head at the occasional ceremony where someone else leads a prayer.

But if it starts to be the case that everywhere you go starts and ends with prayers, and you're now required to say "amen" and if you don't you're called a bigot, your atheism starts to seem more important - or at least your right to it. And people who aren't seeing any problem are definitely frustrating...

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All very good points!

trans man who always posts the most ridiculous "dude" type of posts that no one I know would respond to if it was actually someone's brother, but bc it's someone showing what a guy they are, anytime they post something like "just having a beer and watching the game!" like a dozen alternative-artsy-lesbian type people write things like "right on, my man!" It's a complete farce as far as I can tell, all done in hopes of helping this person feel they are correctly achieving manliness.

Lol, that's absolutely ridiculous. I've seen that sort of thing before, though, too.

I used to just use preferred pronouns when they only came up on the odd chance I'd be having a conversation that referenced a tiny handful of trans people in my circle - like bowing your head at the occasional ceremony where someone else leads a prayer.

But if it starts to be the case that everywhere you go starts and ends with prayers, and you're now required to say "amen" and if you don't you're called a bigot, your atheism starts to seem more important - or at least your right to it. And people who aren't seeing any problem are definitely frustrating...

COMPLETELY agree. This is exactly how I feel about it; I appreciate you verbalizing this, because it's something I struggle to get across to most people I've talked to. I might have to steal the metaphor.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm Christian, but not fervent, but I do worry about dating an atheist since most of the lesbian and bisexual atheists I've met have been fervently atheist and I feel it would cause conflicts, but on the other hand, I couldn't handle a fervent Christian either, who wouldn't be happy if I didn't go to Sunday church with her or worked on the Sabbath.

Any forcefulness in ideology/beliefs isn't healthy in a relationship, even when you both agree and have the same beliefs.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel you. I am not atheist myself but am generally against religion, and haven't encountered enough bisexual/lesbian women who are Christian to test that approach (haven't encountered many LB women, period...). I agree about forcefulness, I would say that's a red flag in general as well.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally don't like organised religion, and prefer to follow my own interpretations of the Bible (which I treat as a piece of historical fiction which contains morality tales rather than fact).

I haven't had a lot of experience, personally, but there hasn't been a lot of middle ground. They're either really Christian or really atheistic, barely anything in between (which is why I look for agnostics more often than not).