LifestyleThoughts on Drag Queens & Drag Kings?

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[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do you view Drag in a positive, negative, or neutral light?

Negative light. If drag culture wasn’t associated with the gay community and was just a niche, then I’d be ambivalent towards drag. In fact, I’m sure there are some drag queens who are cool. But I don’t see how a man in a dress and a wig helps society to accept gay people. In fact, when I first discovered that I was gay, I was freaked out because I did not want to be associated with cross dressers. Even to this day, where I’m perfectly comfortable with my sexual orientation, I still find cross dressing in public somewhat repulsive. Especially when it happens in front of a child. I don’t know why I find drag repulsive, but I just do. But the fact that it’s associated with the gay community, it makes me feel weird. When I am in a gay bar, I am polite and keep my discomfort around drag queens and drag kings to myself, but I wished that drag was just a niche that involved straight people as well as gay and bisexual people so that it wouldn’t be so prevalent and would not be "this gay thing".

Who is Drag for?

Well, the point of drag is that someone is acting as an over-the-top caricature of the opposite sex. So yeah, drag queens are for men and drag kings are for women. If a trans woman dresses up as Chuck Norris for a living I suppose you could call him a drag king to be polite; technically, he’s just an actor.

Should children be able to do perform for Drag?

Absolutely not. Drag culture is completely inappropriate for children. Drag is more than just cross dressing, there are a lot of sexual components to it. Parents of child drag queens should be ashamed of themselves. The parents of this poor Desmond kid should be arrested for child abuse.

Are you interested in Drag or do you perform Drag?

No and no. I wouldn’t even date a drag queen. I suppose I would be fine with a boyfriend who wears fishnets, high heels or tights in private, as long as he doesn’t do it in front of children or in public. But no, I wouldn’t date a drag queen.

What are your thoughts on Drag Queens popularity and Drag Kings barely being heard of?

I normally don’t envy lesbians because of how badly affected their community has been by woke culture compared to the gay male community. But I do envy the fact that lesbians don’t care so much about drag. Then again, a lot of lesbians find drag queens offensive, so on the subject of drag, we both have it bad. I just wished that drag wasn’t associated with the gay community. Yes, some gay men would still be drag queens, but at least it wouldn’t only be gay men. I get the feeling that straight liberal women are the biggest fans of drag culture, though maybe I am wrong. But if that's true, it might explain why drag queens are much more common than drag kings.

Any additional thoughts?

Drag culture should just be a niche thing. Any man can be a drag queen and any woman can be a drag king. It shouldn’t be anymore associated with the gay community than rock music. Also, have you guys ever heard of "faux kings"? It’s where a man dresses up like an exaggerated caricature of men. The equivalent for women is "faux queen". But I find this who "faux" stuff to be pointless. If I take my shirt off, wear a pair of camouflage trousers and a crucifix, speak in a fake Russian accent and get up on a horse and get paid for doing that, I’m not a "faux king"; I’m just being an actor.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t know why I find drag repulsive, but I just do. But the fact that it’s associated with the gay community, it makes me feel weird. When I am in a gay bar, I am polite and keep my discomfort around drag queens and drag kings to myself, but I wished that drag was just a niche that involved straight people as well as gay and bisexual people so that it wouldn’t be so prevalent and would not be "this gay thing".

Maybe this explains your feelings?: drag's association with gay people implies that they're somehow "really" the opposite sex-- the familiar "male-attracted = female, female-attracted = male" false-equivalency. So, according to this assumption, it's "natural" for gay men to be viewed as women (= drag queens), and lesbians to be viewed as men (= drag kings). Both of which, of course, are all kinds of creepy/insulting. And that might be what you're reacting to.

Also, you could be picking up on another manifestation of this phenomenon: that drag developed from cross-dressing, which was a "gay thing" not because homosexuals found it fun, but because they found it necessary. As a survival strategy. If a gay guy could "pass" as a woman, then he could potentially have a romantic/sex life without being arrested, committed to a mental institution, and/or violently assaulted. Same for lesbians "passing" as men. So cross-dressing (and thus drag) as a gay tradition is a product, and consequently a reminder, of gay oppression. Which can't help but leave a bad taste in my mouth (and probably yours as well).

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You’re right. Now that I’ve read your comment, I realise why I don’t like drag culture. I get incredibly offended when people treat gay men as if we're women. Thankfully, I’ve never been treated as if I’m a woman, but I will be sure to let anyone who treats me like that know that I don’t appreciate it at all. And your explanation for why homosexuals used to cross dress makes a lot of sense. Survival, not fetish. I’m glad I live in a country where homosexuality is accepted by most of society so that I will never have to wear a dress. In fact, your reply has also explained why I get irate whenever gay men refer to each other using female pronouns.

Thank you for your response. It was helpful.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're so welcome, Warrior :) I'm glad to have helped.

Yeah, I'd always been uneasy with drag culture, but couldn't really articulate why; in fact, it was becoming trans-critical that finally clarified things for me. That what bugged me was how it trades on gender roles, and the creepy implications of that for both women and homosexuals (gay men in particular).

The thing is, I wanted to like drag, in a way... both as a Good Little Liberal, and as someone with an abiding interest in makeup, fashion, and glamour. But that underlying misogyny/homophobia turned me off. So I've been thinking... would it be possible to have something like drag, but without that creepy element? Where it's totally decoupled from "looking like a woman" (or rather a caricature thereof), or being gay? And is, instead, simply about ANYONE-- of either sex and any sexual orientation-- who enjoys creating a glamorous look for themselves? Expressing their creativity with clothes and makeup and hairstyles and stuff? And men could do it without any sense that they couldn't look like men, or really weren't men? Or that homosexuality had anything to do with it?

I mean, I know that you probably wouldn't care for it even so-- just sounds like this isn't your kind of thing-- but am I right in thinking that such a phenomenon wouldn't repulse you, the way drag does? Since it'd be missing the whole "gay men = women" aspect? Cuz there would be no connection to homosexuality, or gay culture? So YOU aren't implicated, as a gay man; like anyone else, you could take it or leave it. Which is as it should be.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wanted to like drag as well. Just to be open minded. But I couldn’t. I find it creepy, homophobic and degrading. And yeah, some don’t behave the way drag queens act. My mother and my sister don’t act like that. None of my aunts or female cousins act like that. So I can see why a lot of women would find drag queens offensive.

Now a man dressing up as a woman for comedic purposes like with Monty Python, I’m fine with that. It can be entertaining. But the actors dress up as ordinary women. And there’s nothing sexual or degrading. It’s just lighthearted comedy.

I’m not into makeup or fashion. But it’s cool if other people are. If people want to do beauty pageants were they dress as the opposite sex but there’s nothing sexual, freaky or obnoxious about it then I don’t mind it.