Children's shows: gender identity ideology, and LGB represenation?

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.LGBDropTheT

I am not really caught up on popular TV shows of the day. That said, I keep hearing two shows mentioned repeatedly in the context of gender identity ideology and being "nonbinary": Steven Universe, and She-Ra.

Just curious, does anyone here watch these shows (or others like them) and have a sense of how much/little they push gender identity BS? I have heard that She-Ra has some LGB representation, but I'm not sure if that's a net-positive if it is also passing on a bunch of stereotypes and harmful beliefs.

edit: if you're looking for a laugh, this article inspired me to make this post: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-steven-universe-taught-me-to-love-my-complicated-gender-identity%3famp

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[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I watched it a long time ago with a friend who was into it.

From what I remember, it starts off as an innocuous enough coming of age story about an annoying kid and his 3 carers, with distinct lesbian undertones that were occasionally lampshaded in pretty inappropriate ways (Cartoons have always had adult jokes strewn in there for the parents, but they were seldom purely visual).

As it went on it got more into the whole "UM ACKSHUALLY THEY'RE NOT LESBIANS THEY'RE NONBINARY DEMIQUEER SHE/HER WLWS" kinda shit and I found it hard to appreciate any of the actual lessons strewn in there while the showrunners were aggressively attempting to forcefeed me their personal views and ideologies while passing them off as truth.

[–]LenaScrpn1111 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Yes, I watched this show back in 2014 with a 7 year old. I honestly can’t remember the emphasis on gender. But I thought because they were Gems from another planet was the the reason they didn’t have genders and they did bond to form other gem fusion. (Garnet is two gems.)

It also did not stop my niece from giving them genders anyways. They were pretty colors so to her obviously girls. Not once was gender mentioned in the episodes I watched.

No one wore or did obvious gender stereotypical things or played those roles.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

They've always been referred to in show with female pronouns and present as female even though the creator (a non-binary bisexual woman) insists they're non-binary, not female (the irony is clearly lost on her). There's also the detail that the main character's mother, who is a gem, is called exactly that, his mother, a purely female term. The only reason why there's such an emphasis on gender/woke stuff is because of the creator pushing her ideologies onto the show rather than the show being explicitly about gender. The only character that could be considered genderless is the fusion of the main character Steven and his girlfriend Connie, creating a new being called Stevonnie. However, this was originally supposed to be an allegory for sex/romantic relationship. Now it's being retroactively used as an allegory for being transgender or non binary or what have you.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'll just add on that her husband, Ian Jones Quartey, has a show (OK KO) that's never brought up as much, even though it has a healthy amount of LGB representation. Although they have gone back and 'confirmed' that a character or two were non-binary/genderqueer/pan, but it doesn't matter since the show is over and it was never brought up in the show itself, which in all honesty didn't make a big fanfare about having LGB characters like Steven Universe did.

[–]cure_osa_disorder 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If they can't show LGB without pushing T propaganda in our face, not only does it not count, then it is an active detriment to the LGB community.

The recent revival and remake of The Boys in the Band raised the bar for all-gay productions and it's time to raise it further to exclude greedy hackish self-loathing sellouts and white privilege/gentile privilege beneficiaries like Ryan Murphy and the panderers who make tr-nscult propaganda like this at gays' expense. If they can't do that, then I'll just stick with Leave it to Beaver reruns since IIRC Richard "Fred Rutherford" Deacon was gay in real life.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The show itself doesn't push the T agenda, as far as I remember. It was just after the fact that they said those things to pander to the TQ crowd, since it wouldn't affect the show in any significant way as it was off the air.

The only thing that bothered me was there was a flamboyant effeminate minor villain that was eventually revealed online to be gay, because of course a dude who likes fashion and talks like James from Pokemon must be gay :/

Yeah, mainstream media sucks. Is it so much to ask to have a show where you got LGB and no one brings any attention to them being LGB? No T or Q shit either.

[–]cure_osa_disorder 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is it so much to ask to have a show where you got LGB and no one brings any attention to them being LGB? No T or Q shit either.

Apparently so because the sponsors who pay the bills of advertiser-supported TV, which Cartoon Network is because it is basic cable, are part of the problem, too. They won't include LGB without the T.

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So Garnet is supposed to be read as a black character based on her appearance and voice actress, it's pretty obvious, but the feminine gemstones with feminine voices and feminine features and feminine mannerisms and feminine pronouns are somehow nonbinary? That's completely fucking ridiculous.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Well, Rebecca Sugar is a non-binary bisexual woman after all, so anything goes. What's interesting is she never said they're non-binary women, just non-binary.

[–]cure_osa_disorder 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are guilty of pushing gay erasure. And they are owned by the same company that now owns Warner Bros. Pictures, the same company that made the godawful tr-nscult-enabling pederasty-glorifying US version of Shameless, and who back in the 1980s cast religious homophobe Kirk Cameron in Growing Pains and who own the rights to his Jesus freak sister's alleged sitcom Full House. I have grown to hate them almost as much as I have grown to hate Disney which I used to love. I hate mainstream media. I don't want it to exist at all.

[–]LenaScrpn1111 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Damn, I should have paid more attention when I was watching it. I had no clue how that show was perceived by others.

Was it considered woke back then or did it all of a sudden become woke? We did watch Finn and Jake too. I’m bout to go look that show up.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was woke but not overly so, but then the creator started to insist the characters are non-binary, even though they're clearly lesbians (bisexual in one case), and WB latched on and made the whole thing about gender, even though it really isn't. The male main character wears a dress once, and everyone online were overjoyed with that, but it only happened in a later season, when the creator had already come out as a non-binary bisexual woman.

[–]justagaydude123 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should be noted that Steven was being pressured into wearing his mother's clothes, he didn't choose the dress.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it seems that Cartoon Network has gone full TRA and SJW with the whole thing.

Oh well, everything good on there ended in the early 2000s

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She-Ra features a "nonbinary" character voiced by Jacob Tobia, a "nonbinary transfeminine" man who gained a bit of notoriety for saying creepy shit on Twitter. I haven't watched it, but knowing that alone makes me assume it's probably a trainwreck.

[–]EzukiRaen 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I haven't seen Steven Universe so, I can't say much about it other than bits and pieces I've heard. I've heard that then "gems" are nonbinary because gems are rocks and rocks don't have a gender. I also saw that they recently released a psa promoting pronouns like "ze/zir". And I've heard that the fanbase is really toxic.

I saw the new She-ra a few months ago after someone on r/TL mentioned the main couple were lesbians.

I personally enjoyed it. However, I have plenty of critisisms for it. They aged down the characters a lot from the original (i.e. from adults to teens/younger) and, even though most of them were teens, they'd act even younger and dumber than that. At the same time, the main couple was so toxic that it's pretty disturbing that it was glorified. One of the characters, Catra, tries to kill her love interest, Adora, pretty much every chance she gets in basically every season execpt for the last one. On top of that, the ending of the show was so rushed (specifically Catra's redemption arc) and it felt like her redemption was absolutely not earned. Adora practically forgives her instantly without Catra having to do much of anything to earn it. Even further, in the final season, Catra tried to abandon Adora because Adora was planning to sacrifice herself to protect everyone and save the world.

The show also had both a background lesbian couple and gay couple. That was fine, not much to say. The only time the show really shows its ideolodical leanings is with one character who's nonbinary. It was a little confusing to watch at first because all the characters refer to this one as "they" but, once you get what they're talking about, it's not that big of a deal. You can also tell the political leanings from the character designs but again no big deal. In spite of it's clear leanings, the show didn't feel preachy or pushy. If a character was something, the show didn't try to justify it or go down an identity crisis rabbit hole. They simply were whomever they were designed to be.

My biggest issue is that the show presents itself as a kids show but it seems more like a late teen/young adult show. I say that because I don't think it's right for children to watch a glorified toxic relationship regardless of sexuality. This is probably the only thing that makes me hesitant to calling it a kids show. I can't think of any other kids show that presents a toxic relationship as something to strive for. Even Plankton and Karen from Spongebob had a far better relationship.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the new She-ra fanbase is very toxic. From my understanding they are on par with the Steven Universe fanbase; incredibly viscious and mean to anyone who doesn't like their shows. The fanbase for the new She-ra in particular are also incredibly rude to the fanbase of the original She-ra. Example, there was a young girl who drew fanart for the original She-ra and people were harrassing her and accused her of whitewashing a character that was 1) originally white and 2) from the original series and not the new one.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I liked She-Ra, but it wasn’t without its faults. The main relationship was definitely toxic (probably because it was so rushed), but I did like the casual LGB representation. However, the addition of the TQ+ stuff...not so much. I don’t know about the toxic fanbase (because I don’t participate), but Noelle Stevenson jumped onto the woke train a little while back.