DiscussionAre you more annoyed by trans identifiers of the sex opposite from yours?

submitted by notdelusionalbased faggot from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]Gearbeta 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

As a female, I find them both to be equally as obnoxious although I acknowledge the male ones are physically more dangerous. I see a lot of radfems and gencrit people defending transmen and non binary females because they're female, but they're, in many respects, just as bad for women's and LGB rights.

[–]SeasideLimbs 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I see a lot of radfems and gencrit people defending transmen and non binary females because they're female

This. There is a ton of ugly misandry in the GC community, to the point of some of them being best described as femcels. It often blinds them to the reality that the large amount of straight trans-identified women are also largely driven by a fetishization of homosexual couples and that lesbian trans-identified women are attention-seeking and aggressive a-holes just as much as any trans-identified man, and not the innocent poor helpless manipulated lesbians they often want to paint them as. A single look at r/askgaybros right now will instantly prove that.

[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It often blinds them to the reality that the large amount of straight trans-identified women are also largely driven by a fetishization of homosexual couples and that lesbian trans-identified women are attention-seeking and aggressive a-holes just as much as any trans-identified man, and not the innocent poor helpless manipulated lesbians they often want to paint them as.

I know this is a tough pill to swallow, but I really agree with this. Women are humans. They are not innately more "wonderful" than men, and they are not immune to abusing people or power. I say that as a woman who has been abused by women, and who is trying to learn to be proud of being a woman. We 1000% are the disadvantaged sex in terms of how we have been treated, and simultaneously, at the end of the day we are just humans.

I kind of wonder if it is a sort of benevolent sexism going on, or maybe just personal bias of the posters. I will say, I do think there are a lot of misguided, nonviolent female transmen, who were pressured into transitioning. But saying none are contributing to the problem in a coercive fashion is not reflective of reality.

[–]Seahorse 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are issues with homophobia and the radfem movement.

I just unfollowed a supposed for women page for posting a Christian ex gay bullshit article.

But not all are like this, I'm aware of predatory females in the trans community.

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I can understand why GC women wouldn’t want to turn their back completely on transmen because transmen often still experience the same struggles as they had before transitioning and many transition because of sexual trauma or discomfort with the pressures caused by femininity, so on y know all that sad stuff. But there reaches a point where you gotta let these women learn the hard way, they can’t escape their oppression so easily. If they ignore the problem , then there’s no helping them. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want help.

[–]Gearbeta 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I've seen GC women try and imply that transmen are almost never an issue because of female socialization and it's just not true. Or I see them say that it's MTF trans people who are at fault for various problems when in reality it is FTM ones who are the problem.

And yeah I feel bad for some of them and GC should support them because they have female needs but if they refuse to admit they are female and attack things like the female symbol on pads or get people banned off Twitter for posting the true statement that only females get cervical cancer or harass gay men they should be getting the same criticism as MTF creeps pretending their dicks are feminine.

I have respect for any trans or GNC person who can acknowledge their biological sex and act accordingly.

[–]notdelusionalbased faggot[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

trans or GNC person who can acknowledge their biological sex and act accordingly

What does this entail?

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not the commenter you responded to but, maybe an example would be Buck Angel or Blaire White. Someone who does not pretend that they have the biology that that don't (e.g. a MTF saying they are on their period when they have no uterus). Someone who acknowledges that they are their biological sex, even though they try to appear like the other biological sex. Someone who is comfortable admitting that in conversations about gender, they do not have the same experience as the gender they tried to pass as, because they were socialized growing up as the other gender (at the very least). Views trans as requiring gender dysphoria / mental illness component. That sort of thing, is my guess.

[–]notdelusionalbased faggot[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's fair although "presenting" as having the opposite biology still seems inauthentic. I mean, it's like a short person standing on hidden stilts but willing to acknowledge they are actually short. Or say a white person who has surgeries and takes drugs to appear as a black person, but willing to acknowledge they are actually white. I dunno... isn't a fundamental part of acknowledging truth, the embrace of it?

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Directly speaking, you are correct. It is not reflective of reality. The interesting question is whether or not this is a reasonable solution to the mental health problem of gender dysphoria-- which is indeed real and well-documented. I have kind of wondered whether CBT or some other evidence-based therapy treatment might prove better for gender dysphoria, especially if gender dysphoria is a result of a) discrimination-related trauma (e.g., a gay man who is bullied for being feminine, a masculine woman suffering from a high degree of internalized misogyny) or b) other trauma, particularly sexual assault.

It may be that all of this-- people transitioning, experiencing gender dysphoria, etc.-- is some combination of trauma symptom expression and other forms of mental illness. The limited research evidence so far suggests this (e.g. the startlingly high rate of personality disorders among trans people-- why is it so much lower for LGB, if they are compared to us?).

But, who knows. I believe that including mental illness in the discussion is an important first step and that's why I am inclined to be sympathetic towards trans people who are bringing that to the table-- even if they still are being "inauthentic" in regards to their presentation. At least some of them are just trying to navigate the world as best they can, I think.

Just my 2 cents :)

[–]Gearbeta 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, what I mean is that if someone considers themselves trans and that's a personal choice for them and they don't demand to be seen as the opposite sex or acknowledge their own sex, then I have no problem with them. People can do what they want so long as it doesn't hurt others. Like transwomen like Fionne Orlander or Rose of Dawn or transmen like Mars on twitter (forget the exact name sorry) or Buck Angel. I would still have problems with the entire idealogy of what they're doing but I would at least respect them enough as people to let them do what they want. Sort of like, I disagree with what some religions believe but I don't have a problem if they don't hurt other people and keep to themselves.

[–]notdelusionalbased faggot[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Appreciate the response. Unfortunately I think it's impossible to truly practice transgenderism (having a fundamental detachment from the reality we're all a part of) whilst not negatively affecting others.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, yeah; I have seen how many are given the benefit of the doubt and assumed be naive, confused, or have internalized misogyny to excuse their actions. But there are probably a fair portion of them who are just not kids anymore and really should know better. They are fully aware of the liberties they are taking by inserting themselves into homosexual spaces like they are and pulling the trans card. It's almost a bit of a gender stereotype when you think about it; the infantilization of women.