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What's the general consensus on sexuality being a choice?

submitted by SexualityCritical from self.GenderCritical

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[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Absolutely correct! You nailed it.

I'll add on to it a bit. See, the sexual preferences human beings have, they hold on to them because of the social environments which surround them. For me, personally, I was drawn to the sexualisation men specifically because I was repulsed by the objectification of women. This has nothing to do with biology, and everything to do with society. I could've chosen to be sexually interested in women in a society where neither women nor men are sexually objectified, or objectified to roughly equal degrees. My preferences are contextual, fashioned through the type of social organisation which subsists in the present day. Clearly, if men were always sexually objectified, and never were women, there'd be a far higher chance I'd gravitate toward women erotically.

I think radical lesbians (lesbians who are radical feminists, whether they consider themselves political lesbians or not) want to redefine both female sexuality and female sexualness. They, firstly, want to recognise that heterosexuality is a political institution, and not natural by any means. It is forced upon women (and men, as well) to force them to be together with men, to continue the family unit, and all the patriarchal social structures existent since the dawn of statehood. The sexualisation of women converts their status from humans to objects, and aids in dehumanising them, so that men have no worries in stripping them of their legal abilities. Through pornography, women are commodified further, to the point where they exist purely for the sake of erotical consumption, and not as human beings with any ounce of individualism.

Radical lesbians, they, secondly, want to cease the fetishization of lesbianism by both men and women, and to permit for all consensual sexual expressions, so that either sex can enjoy what they find erotically pleasing. Women are, from here on, not viewed as sexual properties, but human beings, who, when consenting with others (in a non-pornographic context), find freedom in their sexual experiences. Women who love women do so because they seek enjoyment and intimate connection, and not because of financial, cultural, and/or legal restraints.

It could be argued that in a post-patriarchal society, lesbianism would be far less necessary for women than it is today, since women, in this society, would be free to express themselves sexually, however they please, and women aren't over-sexualised. Women wouldn't become lesbians to try to distance themselves from men, since men no longer wield authority over them. Rather, lesbianism and heterosexuality, and, by extension, bisexuality, would just be relatively apolitical preferences, that are just expressed because they can be, as opposed to abiding by a certain set of ideological principles.

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think radical lesbians (lesbians who are radical feminists, whether they consider themselves political lesbians or not) want to redefine both female sexuality and female sexualness.

They, firstly, want to recognise that heterosexuality is a political institution, and not natural by any means.

Radical lesbians, they, secondly, want to cease the fetishization of lesbianism by both men and women.

This is all supremely ironic. How do you not see how you fakeass “radical ‘lesbians’” are also objectifying and fetishizing female homosexuality? This isn’t the way actual homosexual females/lesbians think. Though it can inform our view of the world, our naturally occurring sexual orientation is not a political ideology like you want it to be nor do we view others as such because it would be counterproductive. You’re misappropriating it and holding yourselves out to the public as us, as the same thing as us, and as representative of us. Quite frankly my dear, you do not have our interests at heart and you at trading one dogma for another. With no sense of irony, you are the colonizers here.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I want to clarify, I'm not a woman (as you said, saying I was a 'radical lesbian'). I'm a man. Sorry if that made things weird. Clearly, I am opposed to the fetishisation of lesbianism, or any objectification of women. I am a man with only androphilic fantasies. Elsewhere in this thread, I've stated I'm a man, so I never lied.

To address your claim, you are saying that there are two types of women who go by the lesbian label: 'real lesbians,' who are lesbians because they feel sexual attraction exclusively to women, and fake lesbians ('political lesbians'), who are not lesbians because they're either bisexual or heterosexual, not exclusively sexually attracted to women.

So, the problem here is that sexual attraction needs to be defined. Do you think any woman who wants to be a lesbian is not a lesbian? We're not talking about, for instance, sex or race here. Someone cannot become a woman simply because they say they are. Being a woman is not an identity. Someone cannot become native American simply because they claim they are. Obviously, these things are not choices. But sexuality isn't something you can touch, something material. Sexuality is abstract, invisible, and not someone that can be detected within a person. If someone doesn't tell you they're gay, how do you know? Well, you simply don't, since all sexuality has arrived to mean is self-identification.

A political lesbian is no different from a supposedly real lesbian.

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To address your claim, you are saying that there are two types of women who go by the lesbian label: 'real lesbians,' who are lesbians because they feel sexual attraction exclusively to women, and fake lesbians ('political lesbians'), who are not lesbians because they're either bisexual or heterosexual, not exclusively sexually attracted to women.

No, there are a lot of different reasons some females who do not experience exclusive female-attraction adopt or claim to be lesbians. The other categories were just not relevant.

A political lesbian is no different from a supposedly real lesbian.

You keep saying that as if we homosexual females out here in the field who are in the business of fucking women can't tell the measurable difference between women who are exclusively attracted to women vs. women who are not attracted to women or are attracted to both men and women but pursue women out of misandry. The latter think and talk about men way more than the rest of us.

I'm sorry I mis-identified you as a woman. I did see that later. Unfortunately though, almost nothing you say resonates with my sexuality or my sexual orientation. "Lesbian" is not my identity. In fact, IRL I use this word to describe myself almost never. But it is the word that describes the reality of my sexual orientation. As I said, almost nothing you said resonates with me. I'm a lawyer and constructing, analyzing, deconstructing, and evaluating arguments is what I do for a living. As for yours, you start with boldly stated premises that I don't agree with to begin with because they are so far removed and in conflict with my own experiences and observations. And then from there you jump to an equally preposterous conclusion. That's not worth my time to break down because it would be like arguing with a flat-earther. That you are a man makes a little more sense because you seem to have little understanding of female sexuality and homosexual relationships between two women.

But you know, the easiest relationship I've ever been in is the only relationship I've ever been in with with a man. He was an excellent partner and remains one of my very best friends and close confidantes. So maybe you're onto something. Maybe we should all force ourselves to be in relationships with people we are not attracted to.

Godspeed dude.