Twoxchromosomes on Reddit now posting transition pics, and is basically a trans sub now.

submitted by GConly from self.GenderCritical

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[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (34 children)

Income will have an impact. But what do you mean you disagree? You think most girls are treated worse in the west by their families?

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

I don't think most girls are treated badly(by their families) in the US or other western countries, but I know me and my brother were treated differently. By our parents, by the health care system, by the school, by other kids...

Of course it can be horrible and worse than in any non-Western countries. I never said otherwise. I said most girls. And I'm from the US.

Can you cite the research on which you are basing your claims that the different treatment you got in your family presumably due to your sex is not the case for "most girls" in the US and the rest of the West?

Families in the West as anywhere else can be a bulwark against sexism, misogyny, abuse (including CSA) and sex discrimination against girls & women - and families can also be principal sources of, conduits for, and the main enforcers of, sexism, misogyny, abuse (including CSA) and sex discrimination against girls and women.

Your unsubstantiated claims about "most girls" experience vs what you personally experienced comes off as naive and reflects an assumption that your situation is/was so unusual as to be nearly unique. On the one hand, you assert that most girls in the West are are not treated badly or unfairly by their families coz of their sex, but you were. Sounds like just another version "I'm not like other girls."

[–]WildApples 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

You are being awfully pedantic. First of all, it is clear she is expressing her personal observations; she does not need to cite to research just because you don't agree with her observation.

Secondly, you are mischaracterizing what she said. She did not say that most girls in the U.S. do not experience the differential treatment she experienced. She suggested that girls are treated differently from boys everywhere including the U.S., citing her own experience as an example, but she does not believe that, despite these differences, that girls in the west are badly off relative to other cultures.

I am inclined to agree. We definitely have our problems in the U.S., but I feel lucky that I did not have to worry about things like being married off before I finished puberty, avoiding honor killings for bringing shame to my family, having to miss school due to menstruation, getting raped because I need to use the bathroom during the night in a house that lacked plumbing, etc.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You are being awfully pedantic. First of all, it is clear she is expressing her personal observations; she does not need to cite to research just because you don't agree with her observation.

Yes, awfully pedantic is me. I have no problem with that label. I am this sub's pedant, nitpicker, fact-checker, scrupulous pain-in-the-ass who insists that posters from me to BEB to lefterfield be precise, back up our claims with evidence and not use nothing but our own personal experience and observations to justify our making sweeping generalizations about hundreds of millions or billions of people.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, how dare anyone make a personal observation qualified with the words 'I think'. What a sadist that person must be.

[–]usehername 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am inclined to agree. We definitely have our problems in the U.S., but I feel lucky that I did not have to worry about things like being married off before I finished puberty, avoiding honor killings for bringing shame to my family, having to miss school due to menstruation, getting raped because I need to use the bathroom during the night in a house that lacked plumbing, etc.

We're all in agreement on that front. The point was lefter's post:

I don't think most girls are treated badly [in the West]

Which is untrue. No one made the claim that conditions in the West aren't better than those in many countries, but to say that most girls are not treated badly in the U.S. is just false.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I am so fucking sorry you didn't like my word choice there. Clearly I should be shunned from ever posting again.

BTW, explain to me how badly and differently are the same word?

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Chill out. When did I say you shouldn't post? Maybe you shouldn't make claims if you can't handle them being challenged. Also see my other reply to you.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No, fuck you. See my other reply.

[–]WildApples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The point was lefter's post:

I don't think most girls are treated badly [in the West]

Which is untrue. No one made the claim that conditions in the West aren't better than those in many countries, but to say that most girls are not treated badly in the U.S. is just false.

Incorrect. Her statement was an opinion, so it is unfalsifiable, just as yours is.

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I did not have to worry about things like being married off before I finished puberty, avoiding honor killings for bringing shame to my family, having to miss school due to menstruation, getting raped because I need to use the bathroom during the night in a house that lacked plumbing, etc.

Seriously! I lived in west Africa for several months. It's not the normal experience for girls in the west to stop attending classes because their families need more workers, or for them to be forced to do hours of housework before they're allowed to do their homework. Meanwhile their brothers come straight home and start on it, and never miss days. When after-school programs were started for kids, it was ONLY, EVER the boys who were allowed to go.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's not the normal experience for girls in the west to stop attending classes because their families need more workers, or for them to be forced to do hours of housework before they're allowed to do their homework.

Maybe in your part of the West this is true - and I'm glad this was/is the case for you and others. But lots of girls and young women even in ultra-liberal "WASP" or Euro-heritage families are pulled out of school or guilted into giving up their jobs to care for ill, disabled or dying family members. Moreover, it's customary for girls to be expected to put their own educational and other interests aside or in secondary place in order to care for/help the younger children in the family under normals circumstances. And it's routine to expect that girls and young women who are unmarried to give up their lives entirely and return home to take care of the family if/when the mother and older sisters become incapacitated, die or otherwise depart the home.

It's true that in in the West in families of a certain economic standing, girls don't usually stop attending classes coz their families need more workers to go work in factories or mines or fast-food restaurants. But that's coz of the nature of the economy in the West. Even in the West, girls and young women are routinely expected to put their own educations, hobbies, athletic pursuits and dreams in times of family crisis (such as parental illness and early maternal death) and national crisis like COVID.

Contrary to what you say, lots of girls even in the West indeed are expected to do hours of household chores before attending to their own homework. This is especially the case for girls growing up in large families, but it's not exclusive to large families. During COVID, lots of older sisters - but not older brothers - have been expected to "help mom" by taking on the burden of caring for and homeschooling their younger siblings.

Moreover, countries like the US are not monocultures, they are a conglomeration of subcultures. And many of the subcultures in the US today are made up by such groups as traditionalist Muslims from the Sudan, Somalia and the ME, orthodox and conservative Jews, fundamentalist Christian sects, conservative Roman Catholics from Central and South America, people from India, Nigeria, China and so on who hew to customs whereby they treat female children, young women, and older women of childbearing age like shit.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You're expecting me to account for every unusual circumstance(like COVID), every subculture, every single western country in the world, and then criticize me for dismissing all of it because I used the phrase 'I think most girls' and a subjective term 'badly.'

Leave Me Alone

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you go by newest, the very next thread on this sub after this one is about girls in Western countries doing more household chores during COVID than boys:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/girls-doing-more-housework-in-covid-lockdown-than-boys

You're expecting me to account for every unusual circumstance(like COVID)

COVID has affected the entire globe; it's hardly an "unusual circumstance." Disease outbreaks that rank as epidemics and pandemics or which affect significant numbers are actually pretty usual. I've lived through a whole bunch in my own lifetime even in the US: polio, measles, mumps, chicken pox, Hong Kong flu, London flu, Legionnaires, HIV-AIDS, Hep C, HPV...

Leave Me Alone

I'm taking issue with your statements, not picking on you as a person. I have no idea who you are or what you are like as a person, though since I give most people the benefit of the doubt I imagine you are a lovely, decent, good-hearted and intelligent person. But my disagreeing with claims you've made is in no way the same as casting aspersions on you or harassing you as a person.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

LEAVE. ME. ALONE. This counts as harassment now.

[–]usehername 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I stopped replying to you because it was going nowhere and it was clear you just wanted the last word, but lol I had to bite. Replying to your comment on a forum is harassment? You can block users if they're annoying you. Ridiculous.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

...I'm sorry, what? What? What exactly is your point in doing this again, now? Did I say something to you recently? Was I talking to you when I said this? checks context Nope, no I wasn't. So now you've decided to harass me over it, for no goddamn reason.

But I'll play your dumbass game. What's your argument? What did I say you disagree with?

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Where did I say most girls are NOT treated differently? Yall are making a hell of a lot of unfounded assumptions about me. I was treated differently by my family, I SAID THAT. But do I think my experience was 'that bad' compared to what I know happens in other countries? Hell no.

And no, I'm not offering you "research" to defend the statement I THINK. THINK!! If I'm wrong, then offer your own fucking research and stop throwing around accusations.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Where did I say most girls are NOT treated differently?

I don't think most girls are treated badly

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

???? Badly and differently are not the same goddamn word.

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

So you think that when males and females are treated differently the female isn't being treated badly? Also chill out.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

No, fuck you. You and other posters could have done something as radical as ask me what I meant. I even did try to clarify it in response to someone else, and I was still attacked afterwards for things I never said.

To your actual question... what does females treated differently mean? My mom treated me better than my brother, imo. My dad treated me worse than him. Some girls undoubtedly have it much worse. But males and females are not the same. If "different" means they were told not to go out at night alone, or given different restrictions, a lot of that is practical. It may not be entirely fair, but I wouldn't say that's a girl being treated badly. It's also not fair I had to pay more for health insurance, or was told not to study math, or creeped on by older guys, but again... I'm grateful to live somewhere where those were my main complaints. And a lot of what I would define as "badly relative to boys" comes from my observations in other countries. I didn't say no girls in the west are treated badly, and badly is itself a relative and subjective term. So when you're attacking me for using it, you're inferring meaning to words I never said.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Lol I have no ill will towards you. I understand what you mean. Yes, having your movements restricted just because of your sex is being treated badly. I understand being protective over your children/teens, but if, as a parent, you don't let your girl out at night for fear of her safety around boys and men, but let your boy out... need I go on? However, this is the very very least of what girls in the U.S. have to endure, including but not limited to CSA and in certain communities, FGM (though to be fair, that practice was imported from non-Western countries). I'm glad your complaints of sexism are minor compared to how it could be, but understand this is NOT the reality of most girls in the U.S. Also I'm not attacking you.

I didn't say no girls in the west are treated badly

Yeah, and I never said you said that. I feel like you're deliberately misunderstanding me. I literally only take issue with the line I keep quoting. You said "most". I'm simply telling you that's not true.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Then it sounds like we have a different definition of 'badly.' I don't believe we will EVER have perfect equality between males and females. I can accept some level of differentiation if it is not unreasonable and based on good principles and/or biology. I didn't even say that girls not go out at night - just not alone. Do you think most girls experience CSA or FGM in the west? I'd like to see the statistics on that, as I don't believe it.

And no, I feel like I'm being deliberately misunderstood, and that line is a response to various things other people have said. You've been more fair than them, but still, it pisses me off.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Most girls in the West do not experience FGM, obviously. Also, CSA is an underreported crime. I reported, but many years later, and nothing ever came of it. Anecdotally, it was experienced by over half of my friends. I was the only who reported. Girls and women in the U.S. are controlled and beaten, but it's never spoken about. I would say that yes, over half of girls in the U.S. are treated "badly" on the basis of their sex. Yes, the word "badly" is subjective, but when compared to the treatment of boys, yes, girls are treated worse. Women don't even have full rights in the U.S. It's possible to be jailed for a miscarriage. I could get into the pay gap. Constant disrespect. Now women-only spaces are at risk and in some cases, already gone. I'd never make the claim that things are worse in the West, and there's a lot of work to be done in non-Western countries when it comes to women's rights, but my point still stands.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

including but not limited to CSA and in certain communities, FGM

Just checking briefly, it is a minority of girls who are thought to experience CSA. Still higher than boys of course, and far too high. But it's not most.

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Again, I never said it's worse in the West. You said:

I don't think most girls are treated badly [in the West]

I disagree.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ok.