Transboy insists on playing in female league - can they not keep their own rules straight?

submitted by Femaleisnthateful from cbc.ca

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[–]Femaleisnthateful[S] 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

So this is the CBC again, of course. The article takes pains to explain that the Ringette League in question permits inclusion based on gender identity, yet here is someone who wants to play in the league that doesn't align with their gender identity, and apparently that's also bigoted and unfair. What even are the rules any more? Generally I obviously support people playing on teams aligned with their biological sex, but I suspect in this case 'doping' with testosterone may be giving this person an unfair advantage.

[–]Britishbulldog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Should be women’s league for biological women who are not FtM. FtM is equivalent to testosterone doping if and MtF have the obvious advantages from male puberty, so both should have to compete with men. Or mixed.

[–]grixit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

how about a tim vs tif league?

[–]Britishbulldog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Definitely scientifically interesting.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not really. Today, trans-identified pubescent and post-pubescent males who reduce their T do not typically bring their T levels into the female range, or anywhere even close to it. But even those males that do, including males who have their testicles removed, do not lose their myriad athletic advantages over females. They lower their athletic abilities and performance compared to other males. But they do not come anywhere close to matching or performing at female levels.

Females who take exogenous T so their circulating T is in the male range do not bring themselves into the male range of athletic ability or performance. They simply raise themselves up above other females.

In a TIM vs TIF league, the TIMs would completely dominate.

[–]grixit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd love to see how they explain that.

[–]Britishbulldog 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

True. My comment was tongue in cheek. It would possibly be unsafe for TIFs. I find them a more difficult issue than TIMs, as TIMs can compete with men whereas TIFs are analogous to women doping T, but as you said, they do not have the same performance as men, plus the safety issues seen in rugby and MMA would likely remain. I guess they would have to stick to mixed sports and competitions.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry I missed that your comment was tongue in cheek. Online it can be hard to gauge tone.

As for TIFs in sports, exogenous T is not the only banned substance. There are lots of them.

https://www.usada.org/athletes/substances/prohibited-list/athlete-guide-to-the-2020-prohibited-list/

But various sports governing bodies such as the NCAA allow athletes who have a medical reason to take a banned substance to apply for, and obtain, a "therapeutic use exception."

https://www.ncaa.org/sport-science-institute/medical-exceptions-procedures#:~:text=The%20NCAA%20recognizes%20that%20some,treatment%20with%20a%20banned%20medication.

My understanding is that work is already underway by trans lobby organizations to argue that females who take exogenous T coz of a "trans" or "non-binary" identity have a legitimate medical reason to do so, and thus should not be barred from female sports for doing so.

This goes hand in hand with the new push and trend to use cross-sex hormones to enable girls and young women to "partially transition" - meaning take enough T to get "more masc" and muscular, but not so much T that they begin to appear male or fully "masc." The goal in these cases is more to help girls and women transition out of or away from the 100% female category without going so far as to become a full-fledged "transman" with the stereotypical beard and baldness.

Clearly, if it does come to pass that females athletes are given dispensations to dope on T whilst competing in female sports coz of "gender" issues, it will be another blow to fairness for "regular" girls and women in female sports. In the future, the best-performing athletes in female sports could well be TIMs followed by females allowed to dope on T for "gender reasons," and in last place, girls and women who don't make special "gender" claims and thus aren't permitted to dope.

[–]Britishbulldog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Considering how successful TRAs are at institutional capture, that’ll get through. Find everything so depressing- women’s rights, women’s sports, women’s everything are just being killed off.