Transboy insists on playing in female league - can they not keep their own rules straight?

submitted by Femaleisnthateful from cbc.ca

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[–]Femaleisnthateful[S] 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So this is the CBC again, of course. The article takes pains to explain that the Ringette League in question permits inclusion based on gender identity, yet here is someone who wants to play in the league that doesn't align with their gender identity, and apparently that's also bigoted and unfair. What even are the rules any more? Generally I obviously support people playing on teams aligned with their biological sex, but I suspect in this case 'doping' with testosterone may be giving this person an unfair advantage.

[–]slushpilot 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect in this case 'doping'

Which of course goes completely unmentioned in the article. Did the CBC even bother to get the other side of the story from Ringuette Quebec? Doesn't look like it. The provincial league adopts their guiding principles on inclusion directly from Ringette Canada; so why should they need to redefine the same rules for themselves?

Besides speaking about all the ways of being inclusive (up to the point where the rules of the international federation take effect), there is only one part in the Ringette Canada policy that I could see as disqualifying, and that is not getting an "authorized" designation for doping control. I can only guess that's what this is really about.

[She] said the sport caters mainly to "higher-income, white cis [gendered] women" and few others.

Well none of these factors were a problem before... so why the sour grapes now?

Let's also not forget that Quebec is under a province-wide lockdown and curfew right now, and all sporting events & practices are cancelled for the foreseeable future, just as they have been for several months. The article references a date from 2019...

So why push this propaganda now? No actual news to write about? A distraction?

[–]Britishbulldog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Should be women’s league for biological women who are not FtM. FtM is equivalent to testosterone doping if and MtF have the obvious advantages from male puberty, so both should have to compete with men. Or mixed.

[–]grixit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

how about a tim vs tif league?

[–]Britishbulldog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Definitely scientifically interesting.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not really. Today, trans-identified pubescent and post-pubescent males who reduce their T do not typically bring their T levels into the female range, or anywhere even close to it. But even those males that do, including males who have their testicles removed, do not lose their myriad athletic advantages over females. They lower their athletic abilities and performance compared to other males. But they do not come anywhere close to matching or performing at female levels.

Females who take exogenous T so their circulating T is in the male range do not bring themselves into the male range of athletic ability or performance. They simply raise themselves up above other females.

In a TIM vs TIF league, the TIMs would completely dominate.

[–]grixit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd love to see how they explain that.

[–]Britishbulldog 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

True. My comment was tongue in cheek. It would possibly be unsafe for TIFs. I find them a more difficult issue than TIMs, as TIMs can compete with men whereas TIFs are analogous to women doping T, but as you said, they do not have the same performance as men, plus the safety issues seen in rugby and MMA would likely remain. I guess they would have to stick to mixed sports and competitions.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry I missed that your comment was tongue in cheek. Online it can be hard to gauge tone.

As for TIFs in sports, exogenous T is not the only banned substance. There are lots of them.

https://www.usada.org/athletes/substances/prohibited-list/athlete-guide-to-the-2020-prohibited-list/

But various sports governing bodies such as the NCAA allow athletes who have a medical reason to take a banned substance to apply for, and obtain, a "therapeutic use exception."

https://www.ncaa.org/sport-science-institute/medical-exceptions-procedures#:~:text=The%20NCAA%20recognizes%20that%20some,treatment%20with%20a%20banned%20medication.

My understanding is that work is already underway by trans lobby organizations to argue that females who take exogenous T coz of a "trans" or "non-binary" identity have a legitimate medical reason to do so, and thus should not be barred from female sports for doing so.

This goes hand in hand with the new push and trend to use cross-sex hormones to enable girls and young women to "partially transition" - meaning take enough T to get "more masc" and muscular, but not so much T that they begin to appear male or fully "masc." The goal in these cases is more to help girls and women transition out of or away from the 100% female category without going so far as to become a full-fledged "transman" with the stereotypical beard and baldness.

Clearly, if it does come to pass that females athletes are given dispensations to dope on T whilst competing in female sports coz of "gender" issues, it will be another blow to fairness for "regular" girls and women in female sports. In the future, the best-performing athletes in female sports could well be TIMs followed by females allowed to dope on T for "gender reasons," and in last place, girls and women who don't make special "gender" claims and thus aren't permitted to dope.

[–]Britishbulldog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Considering how successful TRAs are at institutional capture, that’ll get through. Find everything so depressing- women’s rights, women’s sports, women’s everything are just being killed off.

[–]hfxB0oyA 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There's a boy on the ice!' Like, 'Ref! Ref! Check! There's a boy — the goalie's a boy!'" the Montreal teen recalled.

She should have been flattered that she passed. Honestly, these people want all the cake. Wanna be a guy? Play on the guys league. There's even a mixed league for God's sake!

But she wants a medal so she wants to stay in girls. That's a bit of a parable for trans in general, isn't it?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She should have been flattered that she passed.

That's trans for you; they make it literally impossible for people to please them. She should still be allowed to play on the league because she is physiologically a female of course, but you'd think she'd be happy to hear she "passed".

[–]Finnegan7921 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah I don't get why she just didn't go to the mixed league. She's a goalie, the only spot on the ice where she could reasonably perform against male competition. Some of the rings will be coming at her faster, but it isn't like she won't see them. She'd just have to up her game a bit. It isn't as if she is out there in the middle of the ice getting knocked around.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for pointing out that as a goalie, this young woman would be entirely safe playing on a male or mixed team coz it's against the rules to hit or have contact with a goalie - and "protect your goalie" is the prevailing ethos in ice hockey. That is an excellent point.

Since I don't know ice hockey and haven't watched a movie about it since that one from circa 15 years ago about the 1980 Olympics when the USA beat the USSR, I did not know this rule about the goalie before. It's another good example about how careful sports governing bodies are about setting rules and regulations, and how all players have to follow them or get penalized or even thrown out of the game and/or banned from play entirely. Everyone in sports has always accepted that the rules are there to insure fair play and safety for all, and everyone has to follow them. Everyone, that is, except for those who ID as "trans" - they're allowed to ride roughshod over all sorts of rules nowadays. Thanks again for bringing this up.

[–]Finnegan7921 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Miracle" was the movie....Kurt Russell deserved a nomination for that. I love that movie. And yeah, running the goalie is one sure thing that will get some rough attention no matter what. They are also covered in massive amounts of pads and have a huge stick, so anyone taking a shot at them is not going to really do much damage unless they come flying in full speed and even then, you'll probably fail and end up taking a beating. I've seen goalies go after guys and it is never pretty b/c you just can't hurt them with all that gear on while they have two heavy gloves they can batter you with.

[–]MarkTwainiac 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the reminder of the movie's name. Kurt Russell was indeed great in it, as he was in so many others including the incredibly important film "Silkwood" directed by Mike Nichols and also starring Meryl Streep, Cher, Diana Scarwid, Fred Ward and Craig T Nelson - none of them slouches, LOL.

I love sports movies:"Pride of the Yankees," "Downhill Racer," "Brian's Song," "Breaking Away," "Chariots of Fire," "League of Their Own," "Cool Runnings," "The Sandlot," "The Babe," "Hoop Dreams," "61," "Lords of Dogstown," "Bend It Like Beckham," "Million Dollar Baby," "Munich," "We Are Marshall," "Invictus," "The Fighter," "Touchback," "Friday Night Lights," "Moneyball," "42," "I, Tonya" and many more. They really teach important lessons and are a window onto all sort of social and political issues.

Thanks for bringing these movies to mind.

[–]Franklintheturtle 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

the rules are, of course, "anyone who wants to can play on the women's team, regardless of any unfair physical advantages, natural or chemical "

[–]questioningtw 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Since she doesn't even want to be a woman why is she even playing on the women's team? This is why I honestly think a lot of trans people are narcissistic. If she is taking T, she has zero business playing with the girls and should try out for the boys team. And if she can't make the boys team....well that is too damn bad. They have the audacity to call us entitled when they pull stunts like this. I am honesty worried that women's sports are in danger thanks to stuff like this.

[–]censorshipment 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The answer is in the article: "Ringuette Quebec, the organization that oversees all ringette leagues in the province, recognizes male, female and mixed leagues. However, it only runs championships in female and some children's mixed leagues."

She can only be a champion playing with girls.

[–]questioningtw 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so she is being selfish then. There is no reason she can't play in the mixed league.

[–]Constantine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s almost like they know there are biological differences between the sexes and this person would be at a major disadvantage in a men’s league.