About the lack of logic in gender movement on Page's example

submitted by MezozoicGay from self.GenderCritical

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[–]blackrainbow 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I read on irreversible damage that in the USA a human characteristic must be immutable in order to be included in human rights or something like that, that's why they're saying that (but they are also copying homosexuality).

[–]yousaythosethings 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s not that it must be immutable but rather that people tend to only want to provide anti-discrimination/human rights protections for things that people see as immutable (e.g., sex, race), on the one hand, and either innate and not chosen (e.g., sexual orientation) or deeply personal and central to one’s being (e.g., religion, political opinion), on the other hand.

That’s why “Born This Way” was such a powerful slogan. But we don’t need to have been born this way. It’s at least set very early in life, appears immutable, and is very central to our being. And being homosexual and bisexual operates and manifests very differently from sexual paraphilia.

We LGB people who migrated over from reddit after the banning of our sex-defined spaces have a wide range of views, political beliefs, and life experiences, and are pretty candid about how we have experienced the world as homosexual and bisexual people, and, as you would know, none of us ever “chose” to be this way. I’m honestly still often confused how I’m a lesbian. I was waiting for it to “make sense” and thought “why me?” and “how?” but regardless of how I have ever felt about my sexuality at different points in my life, I always just am. Even if I never told anyone and never dated anyone. And what makes me a lesbian is that this feels good and natural for me. When I tried to be in a relationship with a man, I even didn’t realize how exhausting it was on my mind, body, and spirit until I let myself leave. And how much I had to mute about myself to live that life. That wasn’t natural.

Anyway, I’m digressing, but I also want to point out that on the subject of innateness, the example of Laverne Cox. Laverne Cox has an identical twin brother. Both are sexually attracted to men, but only one of them was “born in the wrong body.” Makes you think. So same-sex attraction appears innate, but transsexuality clearly has social components, even the homosexual transsexual variety.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read on irreversible damage that in the USA a human characteristic must be immutable in order to be included in human rights

That's a misapprehension. Not all characteristics covered by federal, state or local anti-discrimination laws in the US are immutable, meaning unchangeable over time. Disabilities can be acquired in life due to accidents, disease and disorders, disasters, war and assaults.

Lots of people who use wheelchairs, walkers and are legally blind were not born that way. In fact, the majority of people in the US who are disabled seem to fit that category, although the more we learn about genetics it might be that people who develop various disabilities over the course of life due to disease, disorders or other medical conditions have a genetic predisposition to them.

Similarly, pregnancy is temporary, as is maternity in the way it's defined in law - yet protections are in place prohibiting discrimination on these grounds in certain settings.

Also, over the course of history some medical conditions that qualify as disabling per the law and once seemed unchangeable have become manageable or even curable, the way it's happened with cancers and HIV that once were fatal. Many people with severe motor and speech disabilities from stroke that left them helpless initially can eventually recover from them to a greater or lesser extent (as the Patricia Neal case showed). Some forms of once disabling and fatal genetic primary immune deficiency such as SCID (severe combined immune deficiency, or what used to be known as "bubble boy disease") that kids are born with are curable if bone marrow transplants are done before 24 months. Advances in smart prosthetics now means some people who've long been without limb function might be able to regain function.

Religious creed, also protected under US anti-discrimination statutes, is not immutable, either. Many people with deeply-held religious beliefs are converts; they were not born into their religion.

One of the most famous religious discrimination cases in the US was the landmark lawsuit of Muhammed Ali Cassius Clay against the US government (Cassius Clay vs. United States) over the Selective Service not granting Ail conscientious objector status based on his being a Muslim. Ali only became an adherent of Islam in adulthood; AFAIK, he was raised as a Christian. BTW, the US Supreme Court ruled in Ali's favor in that case.

In some jurisdictions in the US - such as CT, CA, NYC - legal protections are already in place for "gender identity" and "gender expression" - neither of which, as we all know, are immutable. Obama during his second term reinterpreted US federal anti-discrimination law to give "gender identity" more status than biological sex in determining eligibility for participation in female school sports, and which toilets and locker rooms students use - as well as for placement in federally-funded shelters. States like CT and CA have passed laws saying convicted criminals must be placed in prison based on their "gender identity," not their sex. In NYC, it's now a civil offense with a fine of up to $250K for a landlord or business operator to "misgender" someone who is trans, enby, whatever.

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It certainly helps... and it occurs to me that in the process they're saying that sex is not an immutable characteristic. But who cares about women's rights these days?