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[–]MarkTwainiac 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Caster herself has passed an intrusive female sports genital exam unlike others being accused of this same thing.

What is this "intrusive female sports genital exam" of which you speak? The one no others apparently have ever been subjected to.

The testimony given in the legal proceedings by Semenya, and by others who testified on Semenya's behalf, including Semenya's physician, as well as press reports from September 2009, say that on August 7, 2009 Semenya was seen by a South African gynecologist at the behest of Athletics South Africa, who in turn were acting at the behest of the IAFF. At that time, Semenya's court testimony reveals, the SA gynecologist did (or attempted to do) a standard pelvic exam on Semenya.

By standard pelvic exam I mean the kind of internal examination girls and women routinely get numerous times throughout our lives. Such as when we're being fitted for a diaphragm; getting an IUD; having a cervical/Pap smear, etc; or we have pelvic pain or vaginal discharge and we're being investigated for things like ovarian cysts, fibroids, endometriosis, infections, etc; or we're pregnant and getting our monthly checkup, we're in labour & our cervix needs to be checked to see how dilated it is, we've just given birth & there's a need to make sure the entire placenta has been expelled, or we're being checked 6 weeks after birth to make sure things are back to normal, as is customary.

Semenya's testimony and that of others testifying on Semenya's behalf make no mention of any additional "intrusive female genital exam" being done on Semenya afterwards. Ever. No mention is made that the IAAF further "sex testing" done on Semenya in Europe in the fall of 2009 involved another internal pelvic exam. The only such exam mentioned in the court proceedings is the one done in Pretoria, SA in August, 2009 (which in the court proceedings Semenya complained about as though it were an egregious human rights violation, and as though it was a highly unusual procedure that virtually no other human being has ever undergone).

Males with 5-ARD tend to have external genitals that vary widely. Some are born with micro penises and/or hypospadias. Others appear to have a vulva, and are assumed to therefore have a vagina and female urethra. But in fact, what these individuals with "apparently female genitals" actually have instead are blind shallow skin pouches (usually an inch or less in depth). Often, the urethra empties into the skin pouch, giving the impression that these persons "pee from the vagina." Any trained gynecologist doing an internal pelvic exam on someone with XY 5-ARD would see right off from the start that this person does not have an actual vagina or a female urethra - which in girls & women is entirely separate from the vagina. (Contrary to what Jazz Jennings has claimed many times on TV, women do not pee from our vaginas.)

When examining the internal skin pouch of an XY person with 5-ARD, there's no way a standard gynecological speculum could be employed in the customary way it is with girls and women. I imagine that if the doctor who examined Semenya's genitals in depth tried to insert a speculum, it would have been quite painful to Semenya. And I imagine Semenya was quite embarrassed. But tons of girls and women find pelvic exams painful and embarrassing too! And we have to get these sorts of exams all the time as a matter of course. But when female people get pelvic exams and cervical smears, no one ever says it's a "human rights violation" - and the UN doesn't step in allege that having our "privates" probed is an affront to our "human rights" and "human dignity" (as it did against the IAAF on behalf of Semenya).

Since Semenya's chromosomes are known to be XY, presumably when Semenya was given a workup by the gynecologist in SA in 2009, Semenya also had a standard blood draw taken from the arm or a buccal swab inside the cheek to get genetic material to be sent to a lab for genetic testing. (The genetic mutations responsible for XY 5-ARD were found and genetically mapped in 1992, and by 2009 commercial assays were available.) I'm guessing Semenya probably had blood testing in 2009, coz the physicians would have wanted to get as much information as possible about Semenya's overall health, as they normally do on all patients, but especially elite athletes - and there are many tests that can be run on blood, but not on saliva or skin cells. Such as ferritin and testosterone levels. But whatever methods were used, there's nothing particularly intrusive about getting vials of blood taken from your arm or a cotton swab brushed against the inside of your cheek in a two-second swipe.

Presumably during Semenya's workup in South Africa in 2009, Semenya had some kind of scan or scans as well (probably ultrasound or sonogram, but perhaps MRI or X-rays, or a combo of them). Coz that's the only way it could've been determined that Semenya has undescended testes and no female reproductive organs, which the court proceedings show was indeed determined at that time. Also, back in August 2009 the head of Athletics South Africa indicated Semenya had gotten scans of internal organs when he - very cruelly and callously, IMO - made a public statement that Semenya "doesn't have a womb - who cares?"

Whichever method of scanning was used on Semenya, all are standard, and most people don't consider them particularly "intrusive." The only "intrusive" method would be a vaginal ultrasound, but that method would be an impossibility in the case of someone with XY 5-ARD even if that person has external genitals that appear to be female at first glance. The pelvic skin pouches of some with XY-5ARD that get referred to as "vaginas" are way too shallow to allow for use of a vaginal ultrasound device, and since such skin pouches are not muscular organs like vaginas are, they are not capable of naturally/automatically stretching to accommodate a probe (or speculum - or penis or other penetrator) the way a highly-elastic vagina can.

My guess is that the IAAF/World Athletics probably did their own bloodwork on Semenya, and perhaps their own scans too. In May 2019, when all the press was still erroneously reporting that Semenya and the other DSD athletes in women's sports affected by the new rules pertaining to their testosterone levels were "females with hyperandrogenism," the IAAF/World Athletics released a document stating very clearly that the rules only apply to XY athletes with testes and no ovaries. I doubt the IAAF would have put out this statement if they had not run their own tests. But at the same time, the only tests required to get that info would be standard ones that most people would not consider particularly "intrusive."

However, I've not found any evidence that physicians working for/with/on behalf of the IAAF/World Athletics did an additional internal pelvic exam on Semenya. In the court case, out of respect for Semenya's privacy, everyone on all sides steered very clear of giving details about the exact configuration of Semenya's external genitalia and urethra - which I think was the right thing to do. They simply said they didn't develop in the customary way, so looked different to how most male genitals look - and left it at that. So I dunno what this "intrusive female sports genital exam" that "Caster herself has passed" might have involved, or when it supposedly occurred.

But anyone who is leery of having "intrusive sports exams" that involve having someone else see their genitals would be well advised to steer clear of elite-level international competition. Coz all athletes in elite world sports are subject to the same WADA anti-doping rules that require each and every one of 'em to routinely and regularly give urine samples under the eye of a sports' official - meaning they have to pee in front of an official in such a way that the official can see where the urine is coming from. Serena Williams has to do this. So did Usain Bolt - & everybody else in top-flight sports. It goes with the territory of being a world-class athlete participating in international events.

Is it pleasant for these athletes to have to drop trou and pee in front of a sports official? No, of course not. But they all put up with the momentary indignity for the sake of fairness. Coz fairness is supposed to be one of sports' most fundamental governing principles.

If I've overlooked the evidence that

Caster herself has passed an intrusive female sports genital exam unlike others

I apologize, and I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me what on what page in the CAS decision - or other documents - so I can learn more about it. I've followed the Semenya story and case carefully since 2009, but I'm sure there are aspects I've missed.