"Vanilla shame" - yet another byproduct of liberal feminism?

submitted by vitunrotta from self.GenderCritical

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[–]TalkToTheVoid 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I almost completely agree with you. I'm not super sure where I've landed on other people doing consensual things in privacy.

What I know I'm super sure about is that shaming anyone for "vanilla" sex is the worst.

Very recently, a friend of mine was shamed by a so called feminist man she met on Tinder, using exactly this word - "vanilla". She said she hasn't tried anal sex and is also not interested in it, and he dismissively called her vanilla. She wasn't as incensed as I was about it, but after we'd discussed it a bit, she did think it warranted some push back. So she told him it isn't cool to shame her for her sex-related boundaries, and he said he "wasn't judging". Really? Why would you feel the need to call a prospective sex-partner boring, if not to judge them as a sex-partner? She then asked him if HE would want to be anally penetrated, since as a man he's got a prostate and will feel it more, and suddenly he was all defensive and "I'm vanilla too". Except he called only her vanilla to begin with when they were discussing sex, and admitted to his own vanillaness only after she pushed back the next time they talked.

It was so obvious he'd never even considered the question. As a straight-man he was so sure he should get to put his penis anywhere he wants to, and a woman who disagrees is being a boring stick in the mud. But his anus is obviously not in play.

This type of man uses "feminist" like a weapon to disarm women. I'm so mad even thinking about him again.

[–]moody_ape 23 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

they always assume the penetrated person in anal is going to be the woman. and they expect women to be penetrated in every orifice. 100% of my sexual partners asked for anal sex, including the one who took my virginity. after a having sex with me a few times, there he was "would you do anal sex?". and don't come say "oh are you seriously complaining that the guys politely ask you for anal? they are doing nothing wrong!" well, if they are asking, that's because they expect it. otherwise, they wouldn't even try. besides, i always said no and they always questioned "but why? but many women like it! but i'll be careful not to hurt you! but it can be relly good for you too! but but but!"

i really wish men were the ones to be penetrated in sex everytime because i hate being so vulnerable for the mere possibility or maybe who knows having something that resembles an orgasm.

my philosophy now is: masturbation now, masturbation tomorrow, masturbation forever.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

"if they are asking, that's because they expect it" Exactly. They aren't asking thinking you'll enjoy it. They're asking thinking they'll enjoy it, and you're supposed to help them have a good time.

I can understand a man having curiosity, and perhaps he can share he's curious about this activity, not put a woman in the spot of saying yes or no.

They should try having some fucking empathy and consider whether they'd like to be on the receiving end of what they're asking. Nope. A man will "ask", and she then has to defend why she is not on-board with that.

[–]Fuzz 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

I had a female friend complain to me that sex with her boyfriend was always painful/uncomfortable (for her, obviously), but he had suggested they try anal sex and she was hoping that would be better. It's like, yeah, what a GREAT IDEA, he can't manage to interact with your vagina without hurting you, but you want to trust him with your anus? Thankfully she broke up with him not too long after.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

And it sounds her boyfriend didn't care that while he was enjoying himself, she was suffering. Smh.

I don't get such men. Isn't their sexual experience diminished by seeing their partner not enjoy the activity? On the one hand it seems like it's brag-worthy for men to be great at sex and give women orgasms, and on the other hand women are told it's normal for them to experience pain during sex and men keep going even when their partner is in pain.

I read somewhere once that a man suggested anal sex to his partner because they didn't have a condom. Like that is the only alternative. Nothing must get in the way of the male orgasm.

[–]moody_ape 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

i think they take pleasure exactly from their partners pain. women are taught to have pleasure from the pleasure we give, but men aren't taught the same. and porn is all about dick hurting women in various ways. besides, if it hurts, it's because is oooh so big! the bigger the better, the bigger the more male, the bigger the more powerful or whatever. i HATE big dicks. honestly, dicks are the least fun part of sex. everything else is more exciting to me than dicks.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

The sea change that's occurred is so sad & damaging. Of course, there have always been men who are sexual sadists and dickheads who get off on their female partners' pain. But when I was growing up (born mid-1950s), many/most teen boys & men took pride in being able to bring teen girls/women to orgasm, and when I was a younger teenager buys often did so by fingering us during make-out sessions with no demand or expectation that we girls reciprocate. (I was making out with boys who got me off for years before I was asked to consider or touch a dick.) And when boys/men were in love, they often placed more emphasis on their female partners' pleasure than on their own:

Roxy Music's "To Turn You On" from 1982: https://youtu.be/P136AgVU5FQ

Also, back then boys & men wanted their love interests to be happy overall:

Bobby Vinton's "Take Good Care of My Baby" from 1961 https://youtu.be/awNqLO6auQA

And instead of pressuring girls & women into anal sex, once upon a time boys & young men were happy just to dance with us and hold our hands:

https://youtu.be/B7X1oUfa8uE

https://youtu.be/jenWdylTtzs

And if they got to make out with a girl, they were over the moon: https://youtu.be/TSpiwK5fig0

[–]moody_ape 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I was making out with boys who got me off for years before I was asked to consider or touch a dick

the amount of envy i'm feeling now... i hope you don't take offense on that hahahah. that was way healthier than what we have today. i wish my experience had been like that. the second guy i kissed already wanted sex. i was in my early 20s, but i was very inexperienced. i didn't even know how to kiss properly and there i was trying to give a blowjob. i feel sorry for that young woman... i wish i could go back in time and stop her. teach her everything i know today.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't take offense at all! Looking back on my experiences compared to what's going on today, I'm amazed at how much sexual pleasure boys gave me back then by putting their hands down my pants & fingering me to orgasm whilst they never grabbed my own hand & put it on their dicks or expected me to have PIV or give them blow jobs or anything else... Back then, it was a given that a girl of 13, 14, 15 even 16 would want to remain a virgin, and that for a guy to expect/demand a girl of that age to give a hand job or blow job was outré & "too much to ask." Back then teen guys complained of "blue balls" all the time, but they accepted having/getting them as just their fate.

When I reached my mid-50s, I went through a "retrosexual" period when I became very curious about old BFs from my youth, & ended up getting in touch with a number of them. One of the reasons was that I wanted to ask about their experiences of what happened between us, to apologize for my sexual selfishness and cluelessness about their sexual needs, & to find out what they had done to get sexual release back then. They all were glad to hear from me, & gracefully (& usually with laughter) accepted my apologies, but they also said they had been very happy - thrilled, in fact - by/with our makeout, feeling-up, fingering & humping sessions - & after & during them they took care of their own sexual needs the way they had been doing since they had begunn puberty, by going into the loo to beat off or "work one out." I was nearly 17 when I first had PIV, and although in the ensuing decade I had an active sex life with a large number of male partners (I'm not promiscuous, really, it was just the 1970s, LOL) hardly any guys I was with with expected or asked for things like hand jobs, blow jobs or 69... But they all loved & wanted to do cunnilingus on me. And it probably goes without saying, never ever did any ask for, suggest, or make any intimations about them sticking their dicks in my ass.

Moody dear, I am so sorry for how society has changed, & for what you have experienced. I'm hugging you virtually right now. And BTW, when I was a girl, we all thought that blow jobs meant huffing and puffing air from our mouths onto a penis like when blowing out birthday candles or what the wolf did in the story of The Three Little Pigs.

[–]moody_ape 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

when I was a girl, we all thought that blow jobs meant huffing and puffing air from our mouths onto a penis like when blowing out birthday candles or what the wolf did in the story of The Three Little Pigs.

HAHAHAHAHA i wish! sounds liek more fun than the actual thing. you sure enjoyed your days. well, looking at the bright side of my experiences, i won't miss these days. on the contrary, i'll probably feel relieved for not having the same sxual drive and not being harrassed. i'll become invisible as opposed to fuckable and this idea doesn't sound so bad.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wow, I wish I had run in your circles instead of the bad company I fell into in the sixties.

There were selfish, demanding, pornsick guys then too. Maybe not as many, I don't know.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, there were... I said in my first comment to username Moody that there have always been guys who are sadists and users... I should have added some more general prefatory comments acknowledging that there have always been guys who are sexually selfish & pornsick. In her 1970 book, Kate Millet exposed how such themes ran deep in major respected, acclaimed literary works like Henry Miller's novels & "Lady Chatterly's Lover." And of course the 1960s was an era that lionized men like Normal Mailer.

As always back then, men in my country (the US) as everywhere committed tons of sexual assault, rape & harassment of girls/women - & I like most girls experienced plenty of it. But not from the guys I dated. As you intimated, my dating pool/social circle was definitely a factor: the boys/young men I dated were decent guys who'd been raised to have good manners (like Do Bees from the kiddie show Romper Room, LOL)... I knew and was hit on (and even stalked & assaulted) by creepy & bad guys, but I never dated or had voluntary sex with any of 'em, so they were excluded from my early teen make-out sessions.

The movie that really mainstreamed porn in the US ("Deep Throat") came out in 1972, when I turned 18, & there was a lot of other terrible media out there that seemed to celebrate male violence & sexual aggression ("Straw Dogs," "A Clockwork Orange"). But funny thing, in the late 60s and early 70s, feminism ("women's lib") had become quite mainstream too. So the prevailing culture was very much a mixed bag.

The years when I was making out with boys but not doing any dick (67, 68, 69, 70) seem to have occurred in what might have been a brief "sweet spot" of a cultural moment - or perhaps an uncharacteristic blip - when even as "free love" and "sexual revolution" were replacing prudery, politeness & repression to become the prevailing ethos in the West (providing boys & men new means of pressuring, coercing & guilting girls/women into unwanted sex acts) it was still the case that (some) boys & young men (all my BFs back then were young as I was, LOL) treated the girls/women they were into sexually in respectful ways while they at the very same time said boys/young men were really proud of being able to get their hands in our pants and get us off.

It was the era when the radio was full of hit songs in which males sung of their undying adoration for the girls/women they were in love with as in "My Girl" (Temptations), "Cherish" (The Association), "I Love You More Today Than Yesterday But Not as Much as Tomorrow" (Spiral Staircase), "This Guy's In Love With You" (Herb Alpert & Tijuana Brass), "Crazy Love" (Van Morrison), "Our House" (Crosby Stills Nash & Young) and a zillion others.

Of course, those sorts of songs didn't/don't represent the entire cultural climate of the time, but the idea that being a "real man" meant being a decent bloke who was caring & respectful to the girl/woman with whom he was in love was very much in the air: "To Love Somebody" (Bee Gees, 1967) https://youtu.be/QHtGu0OGEpc "Happy Together" (Turtles, 1967) https://youtu.be/mRCe5L1imxg "I Was Made To Love Her" (Stevie Wonder, 1967) https://youtu.be/9pYux5-d1Es "Never My Love" (Association, 1967) https://youtu.be/UzgpB9xpyT8 "Your Love Keeps Lifting Me Higher" (Jackie Wilson, 1967) https://youtu.be/mzDVaKRApcg "Midnight Confession" (Grass Roots, 1968) https://youtu.be/5nZnqtDdsws "A Girl Like You" (Rascals, 1968) https://youtu.be/8X9PjUpWpLk (Cornelius Brothers) https://youtu.be/Bet9mulSszI "Every Day With You Girl" (Classics IV, 1969) https://youtu.be/hG4DPXnPqNA Treat Her Like A Lady" (Cornelius Brothers, 1971) https://youtu.be/Bet9mulSszI

[–]MonstrousRegiment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Super playlist!

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not trying to violate the forum rules, but how did you figure out if you were lesbian when you enjoyed doing sexual things with men? This sexual fluidity thing has really been getting to me. My girlfriend has been with 20 men, and gets off, but for some reason I still feel like she’s lesbian. Am I deluding myself? I hope this doesn’t break forum rules

[–]vitunrotta[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dear lord. Yeah, ANAL SEX is definitely the go-to solution when you already feel discomfort during vaginal penetration.

The sad thing is that a lot of men have zero clue what is going on with women's bodies. A lot of guys I've had sex with had a truly peculiar idea of where clitoris is, for example. And many of them would throw a hissy fit if I was to kindly suggest that they were a few miles off... Smh. Also, the "gifted ones" who had managed to learn where clitoris was located used to treat it like it was a panic button and/or piece of steak that just needed to be SLAPPED and vigorously rubbed until it was completely numb.

Seriously, boys need to be forced to take a proper female anatomy class where they're taught what is where, and what kind of treatment is generally painful/pleasurable. Right now they are learning from porn, and we all know how THAT ends up.

(Edit: wording)