Another TIF wins bathroom suit (it's always a TIF plowing the way isn't it)

submitted by WrongToy from self.GenderCritical

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[–]TurtleFuzz 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

As a parent of young girls, this is what I fear for when they eventually start school. Since when did the needs of the few supercede the needs of the many?

When young girls are forced to use the same bathroom as boys, there are going to be problems. Using the toilet makes you incredibly vulnerable, male or female. Every child has the right to be safe when they're going to the bathroom. And the best way to do that is separate bathrooms.

Maybe the solution is to designate one of the teacher's single-toilet bathrooms to be for trans kids? Then no one has to be uncomfortable.

[–]Huffleterf 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Schools have tried that with bathrooms and locker rooms and have been sued for discrimination. One teenage boy won quite a bit of money.

[–]TurtleFuzz 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, that's unfortunate :/

[–]YoutiaoLover 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm wondering, would all-girls school still be a better choice for girls nowadays? Or are TIMs colonizing those schools too like they do co-eds?

[–]TurtleFuzz 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a good point. It might be that religious schools are the only ones not buying into the insanity. Which sounds weird to say haha. But it's definitely something to think about!

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

For child safeguarding, instilling & respecting healthy boundaries and a number of other reasons, schools routinely keep staff/adult facilities separate from those used by the students - and members of the two groups are not allowed to use each other's loos.

Teachers' loos are usually in or adjacent to areas of the school meant for teachers/staff only, and where teachers/staff seek respite from the pupils, so I doubt teachers and their unions would agree to turning one of their single occupancy toilets into a trans students' toilet. Cuz it would mean students constantly traipsing in and out of the teachers/staff's space. The lawyers for teachers, and for the schools, as well as safeguarding experts and parents would also point out that such a plan would make the trans students more vulnerable to potential sex abuse, voyeurism and other untoward behavior from adults - and teachers/staff at greater risk of being suspected or accused of such.

In schools attended by pupils of a wide range of ages, such as K-8 or K-12, it's usually the case that loos are further segregated by grades - or lower, middle and upper school -as well. This is so the small kids won't be intimidated by the larger, older kids; so the older kids don't end up having to be helpers/caretakers of little kids in the loos; so as to protect the privacy of older kids, especially girls dealing with menstruation; and because the toilets and sink in the little kids loos are lower height, and thus not suitable for larger, older pupils. Also, pre-K, K and sometimes first grade classes often have their own bathrooms right next to the classroom that can only be used by pupils from that classroom.

[–]TurtleFuzz 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Good point, I forgot about the teacher's unions and protections from adults. Thanks for bringing that up.

Just an anecdote, but my elementary school may have been messed up. Because I know that while the kindergarten class had a separate, attached bathroom, the rest of the students could use any other bathroom. You could walk to the other end of the school and use the toilets there, because you weren't escorted. I often did this because I didn't want to run into any of my friends or classmates on the shitter haha.

We also had a single toilet bathroom adjacent to the nurse's office that anyone could use, as the door was unlocked (when not in use) and the door was on the main hallway. I don't remember if it was only for students or obly for teachers, but I do remember seeing adults use it as well as children.

You use the word "loo", are you British? I wonder if school rules are different or more strict there than in the US.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Glad you appreciate the additional perspective. These are complex topics, and I only know about the restroom policies in schools from having raised (now grown) kids myself. I was always impressed - and sometimes surprised - by the many additional views that I'd not seen or considered before but which experienced educators brought to my attention.

In the USA, the school bathroom situation is made more complex and difficult to make sense of - and protest - because policies vary from state to state, district to district, school to school...

In my experience, the situation you describe re the nurse's office is customary in the US. Ideally, there should be a single-occupant loo attached to the nurse's office that the school nurse controls access to but which is for students only - and another entirely separate SO loo off the entry/reception area that can be used by anyone. However, the open-to-all SO loo should only be accessible by a key or code rather than being open to anyone at will. Because single occupancy loos in schools that are unlocked and open to all comers make it too easy for an adult individual, a nefarious student, or a group of students to force and lock someone into such loos for malevolent purposes.

I'm in the US, but spend - or used to spend - a lot of time in the UK, and regularly read the UK press. Also, I spend a fair amount of my online time on Mumsnet, which IMO is the best source of info and discussion about these issues. I use "loo" because it's easier to type than "bathroom" or "restroom" and is just as or even more accurate. I mean, we in the US are not usually using school and public "bathrooms" and "restrooms" for bathing or resting.

The rules and regs re school loos in the UK are different and far more strict than in the USA. The UK also has the 2010 Equality Act, which gives all girls and women in the UK the right to female-only spaces and services. And the UK has developed a robust system and philosophy of safeguarding. I'd recommend looking into Safe Schools Alliance UK https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

Nice chatting with you!

[–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand that the "trans" can't use teachers' restrooms, but "trans boys" shouldn't use boy restrooms/bathrooms/lockers and "trans girls" shouldn't use girl bathrooms/restrooms/lockers. So we should have a third and fourth place separate from everything else and call the third and fourth place the "trans" restrooms/bathrooms/lockers. What do you think