all 15 comments

[–]lefterfield 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't follow them regularly, but am a fan of Rose of Dawn and Miranda Yardley.

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Rose of Dawn and Blaire White are pretty reasonable in my opinion. They seem to understand that women are (or should be) a protected minority class who have created their own private spaces because men have shown repeatedly for thousands of years that they do not respect women's autonomy or privacy.

To be frank, I really don't mind sharing a space with someone like Blaire. She uses private spaces in changing areas and stuff like that because she understands that her...well. Parts. Might cause some discomfort. Not to mention they're pretty much all the way transitioned save for the ol snip snip and I can deal with that.

It just really awful that it's pretty much on a case by case basis because as a woman you really can't know which natal male is a threat and which isn't.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But public policy and law isn't based on the personal feelings of you, me or any one individual. None of us is an exemplar of everyone who shares immutable characteristics that are protected by law.

No one woman or small handful of women have the right to give away the hard-won rights of all girls and women across the board to sex specific spaces, services and sports because you personally "really don't mind sharing." Women's and girls' rights and protections do not belong to you, so it's not up to you decide whether or not to get rid of them for everyone else.

Fact is, millions of girls and women would not want to share intimate spaces with men like Rose of D or BW, though many of us would happily share drinks, meals, rideshares, convos and so on with them.

Just because you and some other women say you're okay with it - apparently because you believe that it's possible to "all the way transition" from one sex to the other - doesn't mean that all girls and young women across the board should lose their right not to have to deal with guys - with or without dicks - in the loos, changing rooms, showers, saunas, hospital wards, refuges, shelters, clinics, prisons, and sports meant and purpose-built exclusively for females.

The sorts of spaces, provisions and programs that you are willing to open up to men who perform femininity did not magically arise out of the blue. Women of earlier generations had to fight like hell to obtain and build sex specific spaces, provisions and services to meet the needs of female people in the first place. There were a host of sound reasons for establishing these spaces and provisions, and there's a host of sound reasons for keeping them now.

You acknowledge that someone like BW in female spaces

Might cause some discomfort

to other girls and women. But you discount and blithely wave away the legitimate, often deep discomfort that BW will and does cause to female people in female spaces so as to prioritize the "right" of a man who acts "girly" to go wherever he wants because apparently to you boys' and men's comfort outweighs girls' and women's discomfort.

Both Rose of D and BW believe that men should be allowed to access female spaces based on how well they ape sexist stereotypes of femininity. They believe that men who wear makeup, fake nails, "girly clothes," have balloons of gel or fluid implanted into their chests, get facial surgeries, wave their hands about, speak in high registers and generally act like drag queens have "earned" what they call "passing privilege" - and that this privilege gives them the right to access female spaces and services. You seem to agree with them. But many girls and women - and men too - do not.

I have no personal animus towards either BW or RoD; in fact, they seem like decent chaps, and I view them both pretty favorably overall. But I take umbrage at their sexism and their embrace of misogynistic sex stereotypes. I find their ideas about what being a woman means, involves and is all about to be shallow and offensively dehumanizing to those of us who actually are female. But then maybe because I've birthed and raised young men of around their age, I have little patience for the arrogance of misogynistic young male blowhards whether they "present" as macho hooligans or high femme female impersonators.

The bottom line is, whilst devoting so much of their time and energy focused on trying to appear and come off as feminine, and to speak as and for women, these guys forgot to do one simple thing: ask women. Hmm, wonder why? I think it's because they don't see us as full humans whose rights and viewpoints matter as much as their own. In fact, these guys are so besotted by their own reflections so caught up in their LARPing, they don't seem to see us actual flesh and blood women at all.

If these fellas had bothered to ask the sex they want to be, I think they would've found that the majority of girls and women would say NO!

[–]meranii 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, plus I'm thinking the more extreme TRAs are basically the way how these more mild and reasonable-sounding TRA make headway in getting what they want, people are inclined to believe giving in to their demands is a compromise that satisfies everyone... while they're still invading female spaces, speaking over women and stereotyping us. They're just being a little "nicer" about it.

[–]moody_ape 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

this channel has some very interesting videos. i find it funny that the videos that criticize the left receive way more likes than dislikes and many comments supporting the channel. but the videos that criticize the right receive similar number of likes and dislikes and most comments "call out" the channel about bad quality content.

[–]Maly_Querent 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is an interesting observation

[–]ascom 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are many trans people with views similar to Rose's. Unfortunately, they are frequently harassed and verbally abused by TRAS for being the 'wrong sort of trans'. Fortunately, although some have been driven off social media or banned, more seem to be emerging

[–]luckystar 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Rose of Dawn is based af (I never use that term but she does and it seems appropriate here). Maybe an unpopular opinion here but people like her, Blaire White, Buck Angel, and a close friend of mine who is a post op trans woman are the reason why I'll never go full on TERF. Are they literally the sex of their gender identity? No, obviously not. But to me they are individuals struggling with a serious medical mental condition (gender dysphoria), for which the best treatment currently available is transition. Therapy and other treatments don't work so far; if they did I think that would be a better option as it's certainly easier, but transition is the best we can do. I have no beef with these people, especially if they're post op (I think Rose is?), I just don't view them as a threat the way I do with the anime avatar girldick uwus.

The problem is that the actual rate of occurrence of gender dysphoria is something like 0.1% of the population, but the rate of being a: fetishist, transvestite, drag queen/king, weeaboo, not-like-the-other-girls snowflake, person with autism who just doesn't understand gender roles, etc is MUCH higher. In my view, the problem isn't true transsexual people, it's the trans activists who aren't even really trans, but rather appropriating the medical condition of a tiny minority in order to further their own purposes (narcissism, fetish, oppression points) and harm others (women, LGB) with no regard for the fact that they are deeply damaging the image of trans people.

That's why they have such a strong push to demedicalize being trans, because a proper psychologist would easily recognize them for what they are (fetishists and attention seekers). This push ultimately really hurts people like Rose of Dawn and Blaire White by making it harder for them to access treatment. But these narcissists dgaf, they're just giddy that they think they've found a shield for their bad behavior by appropriating a minority.

[–]Doe_aFemaleDeer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“The best treatment currently available for gender dysphoria” isn’t necessarily always “transition”. And the entire term “transition” is misleading. Castration / Genital Mutilation / injection of potentially dangerous hormones is not “transition”. Male humans don’t “transition” into female humans or vice versa. The term was concocted to misleadingly give the incorrect impression that humans can transition from one sex to another - which is anti-biological fantasy.

[–]WeaselUnderground 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

100% with you.

And it's not just the people who aren't really trans in the sense of "identify as trans but don't have dysphoria", but these aggressive "allies" that run around lgb spaces shouting transphobia at people for really innocuous stuff online. It makes me crazy because all those people are doing, as you said, is damaging the image of trans people. Surprise! Calling people who generally support trans people terfs is a pretty good way of losing support. I have to remind myself to separate trans people from allies, "lesbians who love dick," trans rights acitivsts that take extreme positions, and the variety of other crazy shit I see on reddit and Twitter, because while I'm gender critical in the sense that I think gender is a social construct, I do also support people like Buck and Rose to live their best lives in a way that feels comfortable. It seems like most people on GC started out as allies and got pushed away and turned off, not by people like Rose, but by allies and NB people going to extremes.

[–]mangosplums 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I completely agree. My problem is with the self-ID demands of the trans movement. I don't have any problem with people who've had real persistent body dysphoria their whole lives, who are respectful of women/girls and who have no real mental issues, other than their being trans, if you consider that a mental issue. The problem is this insistence that there needs to be zero gate-keeping and that everyone who IDs as the sex opposite to what they were born with is equally legitimate. So someone who has a history of sexual assault, harassment and violence towards women, who has no actual body dysphoria or intent to change their body, and who has a history of serious mental illness is considered just as legitimate as someone who has real, persistent body dysphoria, who's fully transitioned, has no psychological conditions and is respectful to everyone. The fact that these first types of people exist and we are being forced to accept them into women's locker rooms, lesbian groups etc really harms the people who are truly trans and of course women as well. The fact that every story of the first group of people is being removed, deleted off the internet and bullied into silence, and there's a campaign to ostracize and attack anyone who talks about it, and this insistence that "this never actually happens" is going on is very similar to censorship that authoritarian regimes engage in. It's very disturbing.

[–]Tikiri 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love Rose of Dawn - very thoughtful, intelligent commentary. It’s a pity that channel doesn’t seem to be as well-known/subscribed as that of Rapey Riley or Contrapoints. Hopefully that will change.

[–]votkriscan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would say Dr Debbie is also another rational Trans, who is against the bastardization of women and their spaces.

[–]PandorasAquarium 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do like RoD very much, however I do disagree on many topics pertaining to other political issues on Rose's channel. The Pillars of the Community and Trans Stupid series Rose made peaked me all over again. They're very well made.

I do find it incredibly disheartening that Rose, Blaire, Fionne, Debbie Hayton et al can publicly voice their annoyance and frustration with the current gender ideology and TR Activists with reduced backlash. We as women can't even agree with them without being viciously piled upon. I do understand that they get to have an authority voice on it because it concerns them, but they aren't subject to the rape and death threats women are even though these issues concern us too.

(FTR, nobody should be getting any sort of backlash or hatred for having an opinion, but it does piss me off that they're allowed to be freely critical, yet we get banned).

[–]Tikiri 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love Rose of Dawn - very thoughtful, intelligent commentary. It’s a pity that channel doesn’t seem to be as well-known/subscribed as that of Rapey Riley or Contrapoints. Hopefully that will change.